Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 Interesting... A patient was previously using the 'common' Asian market 6 gents (yellow box, $2-3) and I suggested using a better quality. We have tried Lotus granules and plum flower pills. She comments that the Lotus did absolutely nothing, and the plum flower only slightly worked. Conclusion: ?? What the hell is in those the yellow-boxed patents? Anyone else seen this with liu jun zi con wan? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 on 9/11/00 8:04 AM, at wrote: > > Interesting... A patient was previously using the 'common' Asian market 6 > gents (yellow box, $2-3) and I suggested using a better quality. We have > tried Lotus granules and plum flower pills. She comments that the Lotus did > absolutely nothing, and the plum flower only slightly worked. Conclusion: > ?? What the hell is in those the yellow-boxed patents? Anyone else seen > this with liu jun zi con wan? > > - > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing > in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, > including board approved online continuing education. > > > > One of the issues here may be dosage, another whether the herbs are raw or cooked in the plum flower pills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 I must make an additional comment, maybe not clear after re-reading my post, the $2-3 yellow-box was working incredible. Dose : 8 pills 2-3 x day (yellow box) 8 pills 2-3 x day (plum flower) lotus granules - recommended (1/2 teaspoon, I can't remember) -JaSON > > [zrosenberg] > Monday, September 11, 2000 10:52 AM > > Re: 6 gents > > > > on 9/11/00 8:04 AM, at wrote: > > > > > Interesting... A patient was previously using the 'common' > Asian market 6 > > gents (yellow box, $2-3) and I suggested using a better > quality. We have > > tried Lotus granules and plum flower pills. She comments that > the Lotus did > > absolutely nothing, and the plum flower only slightly worked. > Conclusion: > > ?? What the hell is in those the yellow-boxed patents? Anyone > else seen > > this with liu jun zi con wan? > > > > - > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare > > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics > specializing > > in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, > > including board approved online continuing education. > > > > > > > > > One of the issues here may be dosage, another whether the herbs are raw or > cooked in the plum flower pills. > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a > variety of professional services, including board approved online > continuing education. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 Jason, I'm at a loss to explain why your patient would respond so much better to the patents --- I have usually noticed the opposite reaction, that is people don't get much of a result from the Chinese patents but do much better with granular formulas. I personally have found a much better reaction with Springwind's granular formulas over Lotus', but there is no way to make an accurate statement on this subject without some sort of large scale study. What I have noticed about the patents is that some people perceive them as being more exotic, or more Chinese. There is a subset of our patient population that romanticizes the Asian cultures and tends to respond better to things that feed their imagination: incense, Chinese calligraphy on the walls, and mainland patents. Although I would never extrapolate this to your particular patient, this is something I have observed in a small number of my own over the years. The thing to do would be to compare the 6 Gentleman formula with many patients with the same dx. I'd be curious to hear your results, though I have a strong sense of what they will be. Looking forward to hearing from you. Mark Reese - " " Monday, September 11, 2000 2:47 PM RE: 6 gents > > I must make an additional comment, maybe not clear after re-reading my post, > the $2-3 yellow-box was working incredible. > > Dose : 8 pills 2-3 x day (yellow box) > 8 pills 2-3 x day (plum flower) > lotus granules - recommended (1/2 teaspoon, I can't remember) > > -JaSON > > > > > [zrosenberg] > > Monday, September 11, 2000 10:52 AM > > > > Re: 6 gents > > > > > > > > on 9/11/00 8:04 AM, at wrote: > > > > > > > > Interesting... A patient was previously using the 'common' > > Asian market 6 > > > gents (yellow box, $2-3) and I suggested using a better > > quality. We have > > > tried Lotus granules and plum flower pills. She comments that > > the Lotus did > > > absolutely nothing, and the plum flower only slightly worked. > > Conclusion: > > > ?? What the hell is in those the yellow-boxed patents? Anyone > > else seen > > > this with liu jun zi con wan? > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > > healthcare > > > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics > > specializing > > > in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, > > > including board approved online continuing education. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the issues here may be dosage, another whether the herbs are raw or > > cooked in the plum flower pills. > > > > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a > > variety of professional services, including board approved online > > continuing education. > > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 Jason Unfortunately .some Chinese medicine manufacturers will put anything in their pills to make them better,including antibiotics,speed,steroids etc .I am not sure how your patients are responding better than the granules ..but if they are full of energy etc ..I would be suspicious. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 Yes that is my point.. I am suspicious... This is such a common fx, and the yellow-boxed one is sold so often, I was wondering if anyone else experienced this same thing.. The patient is actually not full of more energy, but actually stomach discomfort, pain, bloating etc.. is eliminated... I personally do not trust any Chinese patents (except maybe min shan)... the question then is : has anyone heard any reports of foreign substances specifically in 6 gents... - > > heiko [heiko] > Monday, September 11, 2000 2:30 PM > > Re: 6 gents > > > > Jason > Unfortunately .some Chinese medicine manufacturers will put anything in > their pills to make them better,including > antibiotics,speed,steroids etc .I > am not sure how your patients are responding better than the > granules ..but > if they are full of energy etc ..I would be suspicious. > > Heiko Lade > Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist > 2 Jenkins St. > Green Island, Dunedin > New Zealand > Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 > http://www.lade.com/heiko > Email: heiko > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a > variety of professional services, including board approved online > continuing education. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2000 Report Share Posted September 11, 2000 I did not see the first post, working well for what? May be they have drugs in them alon - Mark Reese Monday, September 11, 2000 12:59 PM Re: 6 gents Jason,I'm at a loss to explain why your patient would respond so much better tothe patents --- I have usually noticed the opposite reaction, that is peopledon't get much of a result from the Chinese patents but do much better withgranular formulas. I personally have found a much better reaction withSpringwind's granular formulas over Lotus', but there is no way to make anaccurate statement on this subject without some sort of large scale study.What I have noticed about the patents is that some people perceive them asbeing more exotic, or more Chinese. There is a subset of our patientpopulation that romanticizes the Asian cultures and tends to respond betterto things that feed their imagination: incense, Chinese calligraphy on thewalls, and mainland patents. Although I would never extrapolate this toyour particular patient, this is something I have observed in a small numberof my own over the years.The thing to do would be to compare the 6 Gentleman formula with manypatients with the same dx. I'd be curious to hear your results, though Ihave a strong sense of what they will be.Looking forward to hearing from you.Mark Reese-"" Monday, September 11, 2000 2:47 PMRE: 6 gents>> I must make an additional comment, maybe not clear after re-reading mypost,> the $2-3 yellow-box was working incredible.>> Dose : 8 pills 2-3 x day (yellow box)> 8 pills 2-3 x day (plum flower)> lotus granules - recommended (1/2 teaspoon, I can't remember)>> -JaSON>> > > > [zrosenberg]> > Monday, September 11, 2000 10:52 AM> > > > Re: 6 gents> >> >> >> > on 9/11/00 8:04 AM, at wrote:> >> > >> > > Interesting... A patient was previously using the 'common'> > Asian market 6> > > gents (yellow box, $2-3) and I suggested using a better> > quality. We have> > > tried Lotus granules and plum flower pills. She comments that> > the Lotus did> > > absolutely nothing, and the plum flower only slightly worked.> > Conclusion:> > > ?? What the hell is in those the yellow-boxed patents? Anyone> > else seen> > > this with liu jun zi con wan?> > >> > > -> > >> > >> > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed> > healthcare> > > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics> > specializing> > > in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professionalservices,> > > including board approved online continuing education.> > >> > > http://www..org> > >> > >> > One of the issues here may be dosage, another whether the herbs are rawor> > cooked in the plum flower pills.> >> > > >> >> > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed> > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate> > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a> > variety of professional services, including board approved online> > continuing education.> >> > http://www..org>>> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcarepractitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializingin Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,including board approved online continuing education.>> http://www..org>>The Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2000 Report Share Posted September 12, 2000 , " Mark Reese " <tcm2@e...> wrote: > Jason, > > What I have noticed about the patents is that some people perceive them as > being more exotic, or more Chinese. There is a subset of our patient > population that romanticizes the Asian cultures and tends to respond better > to things that feed their imagination: incense, Chinese calligraphy on the > walls, and mainland patents. Although I would never extrapolate this to > your particular patient, this is something I have observed in a small number > of my own over the years. > Mark I was thinking the same things. an exoticism induced placebo effect, since I don't think any patents really " work " , per se. But would not rule out adulteration with caffeine for a qi tonic formula. also think that many granule companies make lame products. have no experience with lotus, but KPC are the only ones that ever worked for me. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2000 Report Share Posted September 12, 2000 , <@o...> wrote: The patient is actually not full of more > energy, but actually stomach discomfort, pain, bloating etc.. is > eliminated...... hmmm. stomach pain does not respond well to common analgesic adulterants like aspirin and tylenol. I would now suspect some sort of antiulcer drug as the adulterant possibly. But have never seen proof of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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