Safe herb-cooking pot

[Guest guest]

Karen, I notice you are on line -- do you have any input to my inquiry about

Da Huang? I need info before next Monday if possible.

 

Julie

[Guest guest]

I'm looking for a safe herb cooker that can be set to boil for a

designated period of time and then will turn off. Something that is not

in aluminum, is suitable for decocting and is reasonably easy to clean.

 

(My search is reinvigorated by a very embarassing episode last week where

I boiled away the water, burned my herbs and a neighbor called the fire

department.) :-(

 

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden

***************************************

" Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they

are. " --Malcolm Forbes

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Karen,

I used to cook Chinese herbs with the glass pan

in Microwave , I set up the first time is 40 minutes with 4 cups of water, I

continue to pour more three cups of water boil more 30 minutes then I pour

it out to use, the third time I pour 3 more cups of water then boil 30 more

minutes. then I take it out to use. The reason I boil two times before I use

it, because , some of the herbs is not absorb to the water for the first

times yet. I boil in glass pan because I try to avoid radiation from

Microwave. They have very common now the ceramic pan which sell in all the

Chinese herb store, they automatic set the time by itself and never you

have to worry about burning pan. however I refer Cooking with Microwave

myself, because it bring my patients a best result. It cook very well and

generate the herbs very good taste.

Nhung Ta

-

Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden

 

Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:29 AM

Safe herb-cooking pot

 

 

> I'm looking for a safe herb cooker that can be set to boil for a

> designated period of time and then will turn off. Something that is not

> in aluminum, is suitable for decocting and is reasonably easy to clean.

>

> (My search is reinvigorated by a very embarassing episode last week where

> I boiled away the water, burned my herbs and a neighbor called the fire

> department.) :-(

>

> Karen Vaughan

> CreationsGarden

> ***************************************

> " Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they

> are. " --Malcolm Forbes

>

> ______________

> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!

> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!

> Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > I'm looking for a safe herb cooker that can be set to boil for a

> > designated period of time and then will turn off. Something that is not

> > in aluminum, is suitable for decocting and is reasonably easy to clean.

 

I have been experimenting with cooking my herbs in a crock pot / slow cooker

overnight. This

usually results in a very strong decoction and I have had to reduce the dosage

somewhat, causing the

regular prescription to last an extra day or so. The crock pot I use is a

removable glazed ceramic

inner pot that sits in the outer cooker (most of them are either aluminum or

stainless steel, but

the herbs never contact this part) during cooking and has a lid that seals very

tightly once steam

forms when the cooking process gets going. There is no timer as it is meant to

cook on a very low

temperature for 8 - 12 hours (or more) at just barely boiling point. It would

be a simple thing to

add a timer - like the ones used to turn on & off one's lights while on

vacation.

 

Judy Saxe

--

hey-jude

[Guest guest]

The main problems with the crock pot I've found is that the boiling point

is unreliable. I've had it not boil at all, which won't extract

sufficiently from roots and medicinal mushrooms (or cook rice within 8

hours for that matter). Conversely it boils rather than simmers, even on

low. The latter happens more frequently with volatile herbs, of course.

I even had my son make a plug in rheostat so I could keep the temperature

lower for low heat situations, but it hasn't solved the variablilty

problem and to tell the truth is still high for infusing oils.

 

Nhung, I have heavy reservations from microwaving. In my archives I have

the following information which probably needs to be verified for

accuracy: April 1992 Pediatrics (Part I): Dr. John Kerner and his

Stanford University co-workers reported unheated breast milk that was

microwaved lost lysozyme activity, antibodies and fostered the growth of

more potentially pathogenic bacteria. Milk heated at a high setting (72°C

to 98°C) lost 96 per cent of its immunoglobulin-A antibodies and there

was loss of anti-infective properties in the milk microwaved at a low

setting of 33.5°C. Similarly, I've heard of failure to thrive from

vetinary sources using microwaved milk for calves. Another account has

a woman in the early 90s, Norma Levitt, reportedly killed by a simple

blood transfusion when a nurse warmed the blood (usual) in a microwave

(unusual), but may not be applicable to us since denatured proteins can

usually be handled by the digestive system but not the blood. More

pertinently, Swiss scientists Bernard Blanc and Hans Hertel tested the

blood of volunteers who ate microwaved or non-microwaved food from the

same sources and found significant changes in the blood of the volunteers

who consumed microwaved foods including a decrease in all hemoglobin

values and cholesterol values, especially the HDL/LDL ratio. Lymphocytes

(white blood cells) showed a more distinct short-term decrease following

the intake of microwaved food than after the intake of all the other

variants. And elsewhere I've found the speculation that the

stereoisomers in microwaved proteins can change rotation from L to R.

This would affect herbal preparations with protein content- horns, seeds,

gecko, insects, etc.- if it proves to be true.

 

Matthew, thanks for the lead on the Daewoo herb cooker. I'll check it

out.

 

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

" Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they

are. " --Malcolm Forbes

 

______________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Karen,

I think, what you are saying is right, but if you

cook with glasses pot, would not be so bad.This only for the people have no

times and hurry all the times, however, my patients got all good results

including me. They also have different way, in the new kind of self clean

stove they have adjust time for cooking. You can try on it. It cost little

more money, but it safe 100%.

Nhung Ta

-

Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden

 

Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:46 AM

Re: Safe herb-cooking pot

 

 

> The main problems with the crock pot I've found is that the boiling point

> is unreliable. I've had it not boil at all, which won't extract

> sufficiently from roots and medicinal mushrooms (or cook rice within 8

> hours for that matter). Conversely it boils rather than simmers, even on

> low. The latter happens more frequently with volatile herbs, of course.

> I even had my son make a plug in rheostat so I could keep the temperature

> lower for low heat situations, but it hasn't solved the variablilty

> problem and to tell the truth is still high for infusing oils.

>

> Nhung, I have heavy reservations from microwaving. In my archives I have

> the following information which probably needs to be verified for

> accuracy: April 1992 Pediatrics (Part I): Dr. John Kerner and his

> Stanford University co-workers reported unheated breast milk that was

> microwaved lost lysozyme activity, antibodies and fostered the growth of

> more potentially pathogenic bacteria. Milk heated at a high setting (72°C

> to 98°C) lost 96 per cent of its immunoglobulin-A antibodies and there

> was loss of anti-infective properties in the milk microwaved at a low

> setting of 33.5°C. Similarly, I've heard of failure to thrive from

> vetinary sources using microwaved milk for calves. Another account has

> a woman in the early 90s, Norma Levitt, reportedly killed by a simple

> blood transfusion when a nurse warmed the blood (usual) in a microwave

> (unusual), but may not be applicable to us since denatured proteins can

> usually be handled by the digestive system but not the blood. More

> pertinently, Swiss scientists Bernard Blanc and Hans Hertel tested the

> blood of volunteers who ate microwaved or non-microwaved food from the

> same sources and found significant changes in the blood of the volunteers

> who consumed microwaved foods including a decrease in all hemoglobin

> values and cholesterol values, especially the HDL/LDL ratio. Lymphocytes

> (white blood cells) showed a more distinct short-term decrease following

> the intake of microwaved food than after the intake of all the other

> variants. And elsewhere I've found the speculation that the

> stereoisomers in microwaved proteins can change rotation from L to R.

> This would affect herbal preparations with protein content- horns, seeds,

> gecko, insects, etc.- if it proves to be true.

>

> Matthew, thanks for the lead on the Daewoo herb cooker. I'll check it

> out.

>

> Karen Vaughan

> CreationsGarden

> ***************************************

> Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

> " Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they

> are. " --Malcolm Forbes

>

> ______________

> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!

> Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!

> Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:

> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/5/00 3:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

writes:

 

<<

Your experience underscores my belief that bulk herbs are

inappropriate

for most laypeople, too many variables to control result in a high %

of

failed treament. If we do this once in a while and we all do,

believe

me patients do it all the time and report it only 1/4 of the time. >>

! I am shocked! Anyone who can cook soup or stew without burning down the

house can certainly cook herbs! Please say you didn't mean it!

 

Julie

[Guest guest]

, Karen S Vaughan <

creationsgarden@j...> wrote:

 

> (My search is reinvigorated by a very embarassing episode last week

where

> I boiled away the water, burned my herbs and a neighbor called the

fire

> department.) :-(

 

Karen

 

Your experience underscores my belief that bulk herbs are

inappropriate

for most laypeople, too many variables to control result in a high %

of

failed treament. If we do this once in a while and we all do,

believe

me patients do it all the time and report it only 1/4 of the time.

Hope the fireman didn't think you were manufacturing a controlled

subnstance. :-)

>

>Todd

[Guest guest]

, Karen S Vaughan <

creationsgarden@j...> wrote:

 

Milk heated at a high setting (72°C

> to 98°C) lost 96 per cent of its immunoglobulin-A antibodies and

there

> was loss of anti-infective properties in the milk microwaved at a

low

> setting of 33.5°C. Similarly, I've heard of failure to thrive

from

> vetinary sources using microwaved milk for calves.

 

these refer to an item that meant to be consumed raw, which is not

true

for herbs, soperhaps not applicable here.

 

More

> pertinently, Swiss scientists Bernard Blanc and Hans Hertel tested

the

> blood of volunteers who ate microwaved or non-microwaved food from

the

> same sources and found significant changes in the blood of the

volunteers

 

 

this study seems more relevant. do you have a citation? It was my

understanding that a huge amount of data shows that microwaving

actually causes the least changes in food compared to all other

cooking

methods.

>

 

todd

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/5/00 7:15:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

tcm2 writes:

(mark wrote)

<<

I believe that Todd's right. I began using bulk herbs and moved away from

them over the years. At least for urbanized folks, the smell, the time, and

the effort was impossible for them to keep up with. >>

 

 

Well, Mark, you may be right. Maybe over time I will come to that position.

For now, I am a firm believer in bulk raw herbs because I think they work

better, I think patients appreciate being involved in their own herbal

preparation, and I think the smell, the time and the effort are all part of

the process. Call me idealistic -- I have been in practice a little under 4

years -- but about 50% of my patients cook and drink raw herbs and do it

willingly and love the results.

 

Julie

[Guest guest]

Julie,

 

I believe that Todd's right. I began using bulk herbs and moved away from

them over the years. At least for urbanized folks, the smell, the time, and

the effort was impossible for them to keep up with. I could usually get

them to be compliant for the first week, but after that they began to slip.

Granules help to guarantee compliance, and there is no worry that they'll

overcook or forget to add the chen pi, or precook the long gu. Plus they

can take them out of town with them --- many of my clients travel several

times a month for work.

 

Using granules, with rare exception (flavor sensitive folks), clients down

them 2-3 X a day and note results due to their compliance. The practitioner

gets the extra bonus of being able to observe how compliant they are because

you give them a week's worth. If there is any herb left when they come to

see you the next week, you can duly chastise them!

 

The final advantage over bulk herbs is that they don't spoil.

 

I understand that granules are becoming more and more common even in Asia.

I can certainly understand why.

 

Mark Reese

[Guest guest]

, juliej8@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/5/00 3:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> @i... writes:

>

 

>

! I am shocked! Anyone who can cook soup or stew without

burning down the

> house can certainly cook herbs!

 

so you would think. and how many folks do you know who can cook stew

or

soup anymore?

 

Please say you didn't mean it!

 

Sorry, Julie. I do think there is an inherent problem with patients

being responsible for their own extraction process. I have rarely

used

bulk herbs for several years. In addition, there are serious

compliance issues, as well as concerns over raw herb quality. A

fresh

herb properly extracted right after harvest and drying is much more

reliable in potency than an herb of questionable age which may have

been stored under poor conditions. Please forgive my heresy.

 

[Guest guest]

, juliej8@a... wrote:

 

Call me idealistic -- I have been in practice a little under 4

> years -- but about 50% of my patients cook and drink raw herbs and

do it

> willingly and love the results.

>

> Julie

 

Idealistic (thats you want to be called, right

 

How many patients do you see per week? Would you consider them

mainstream folks or people already involved in alternative health or

lifestyles? Also, I assume you have had access to your school

pharmacy

during this time. Only a school has enough turnover to really ensure

fresh bulk herbs. No solo practice could possibly do that.

 

Reluctantly Realistic (aka todd)

[Guest guest]

on 10/5/00 9:06 PM, at wrote:

 

> , juliej8@a... wrote:

>

> Call me idealistic -- I have been in practice a little under 4

>> years -- but about 50% of my patients cook and drink raw herbs and

> do it

>> willingly and love the results.

>>

>> Julie

>

> Idealistic (thats you want to be called, right

>

> How many patients do you see per week? Would you consider them

> mainstream folks or people already involved in alternative health or

> lifestyles? Also, I assume you have had access to your school

> pharmacy

> during this time. Only a school has enough turnover to really ensure

> fresh bulk herbs. No solo practice could possibly do that.

>

> Reluctantly Realistic (aka todd)

 

When I was in Denver in the 1980's, I had a raw herb pharmacy for about

eight years. I also saw about 80-90 patients per week.. . ..about 40% took

raw herbal prescriptions (and that many patients burnt me out. OK in my

twenties.. . .not now, in my forties, plus with teaching and writing as

well). However, even at six dollars per pack, I lost thousands of dollars

on the pharmacy. . . .I also had to pay help to put up the herbs. At the

time, prepared herbal medicines of quality were harder to find than now.

 

Now, about 15-20% of the time, for a patient population of 40-50 per week, I

write raw prescriptions, and send them to a local herb pharmacy that serves

a broad population. I carry mostly water/alcohol extracts, including single

herbs that I add to the mix. K'an supplies most of them, I have some

specially made. I find their potency as high as decoctions, and they have

to be, because I treat seriously ill people (chronic auto-immune stuff,

mostly). I also use KPC powders and tablets, and find them quite potent.

Most of my raw prescriptions are for acute patterns, for 7-10 days, or I

alternate them with prepared formulas. For some patients, I make the

decoctions myself, and have them bring a thermos.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I generally find that there are two types of patients. One will look at a

bag of herbs, get a weird expression on their face like, " I'm supposed to

drink that? "

The other sees the herbs and goes, " this is really interesting. " One

patient, who I thought was too conservative for raw herbs took a peek at

the herb room and said, " this is the real medicine. " He's been doing raw

herbs since.

 

 

doug

L.Ac.

acupuncture & herbs

safe, compassionate care

 

1823 Wilshire Blvd. #610

Santa Monica, CA

90403

310 264-9197