Guest guest Posted October 4, 2000 Report Share Posted October 4, 2000 Julie- It looks from the context like the 0.3g/kg is referring to intravenous administration of Da Huang, which of course would differ from oral administration- although that doesn't make much sense either since IV dosages wouldn't be that large. And we usually cook it more than 10 minutes which would change any dosage calculation for purgation/astringency, but still won't add up to 20 grams. Bensky doesn't discuss that effect on dosage. But Hong Yen Hsu's Oriental Materia Medica agrees with you that the tannin's astringency follows the anthraquinones-induced purgation. And his dosage is 3-12g for purgation. Hoffman also describes the two step effect, but also doesn't specify dose dependency. Flaws gives a purgative dosage at 3-15 grams, no mention of dose affecting astringency vs. purgation. Yen gives a 3-10 gram dosage but doesn't specify purpose or differences in dose-related astringency. Tierra, the only author I've found besides Bensky that describes a dose-dependent effect on astringency says that in dosages of less than 0.3 grams total dosage it is astringent. Bet " 0'.3 grams/kg " is a typo. Simon Mills essential Book on Herbal Medicine, btw gives a very good writeup on the affects of anthraquinones and their glycosides which can make the action of Da Huang more understandable. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are. " --Malcolm Forbes On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:26:39 EDT juliej8 writes: >Dear Group, > >I have a question regarding Da Huang. We know it has astringent as well as >purging properties. I have been under the impression that first it purges, >then it astringes, which is what makes it so valuable as a purgative, in that >it contains its own safeguard. I got this information from the book Rhubarb: >The Wondrous Drug, by Clifford Foust (1992, Princeton U. Press). Anyway, >the question is: Bensky says that in " small doses of less than 0.3g/kg " >(page 117 of Revised Materia Medica), " the effect of tannin outweighs the >purgative effect and causes constipation. " According to my calculations, then, >a person weighing 150 pounds (68 kg), would still be experiencing the >astringent (tannin) effect with 20 grams of Da Huang! And we never use 20 >grams of it! Is something wrong with my reasoning? ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2000 Report Share Posted October 4, 2000 Julie- It looks from the context like the 0.3g/kg is referring to intravenous administration of Da Huang, which of course would differ from oral administration- although that doesn't make much sense either since IV dosages wouldn't be that large. And we usually cook it more than 10 minutes which would change any dosage calculation for purgation/astringency, but still won't add up to 20 grams. Bensky doesn't discuss that effect on dosage. But Hong Yen Hsu's Oriental Materia Medica agrees with you that the tannin's astringency follows the anthraquinones-induced purgation. And his dosage is 3-12g for purgation. Hoffman also describes the two step effect, but also doesn't specify dose dependency. Flaws gives a purgative dosage at 3-15 grams, no mention of dose affecting astringency vs. purgation. Yen gives a 3-10 gram dosage but doesn't specify purpose or differences in dose-related astringency. Tierra, the only author I've found besides Bensky that describes a dose-dependent effect on astringency says that in dosages of less than 0.3 grams total dosage it is astringent. Bet " 0'.3 grams/kg " is a typo. Simon Mills essential Book on Herbal Medicine, btw gives a very good writeup on the affects of anthraquinones and their glycosides which can make the action of Da Huang more understandable. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are. " --Malcolm Forbes On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:26:39 EDT juliej8 writes: >Dear Group, > >I have a question regarding Da Huang. We know it has astringent as well as >purging properties. I have been under the impression that first it purges, >then it astringes, which is what makes it so valuable as a purgative, in that >it contains its own safeguard. I got this information from the book Rhubarb: >The Wondrous Drug, by Clifford Foust (1992, Princeton U. Press). Anyway, >the question is: Bensky says that in " small doses of less than 0.3g/kg " >(page 117 of Revised Materia Medica), " the effect of tannin outweighs the >purgative effect and causes constipation. " According to my calculations, then, >a person weighing 150 pounds (68 kg), would still be experiencing the >astringent (tannin) effect with 20 grams of Da Huang! And we never use 20 >grams of it! Is something wrong with my reasoning? ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2000 Report Share Posted October 4, 2000 <<Tierra, the only author I've found besides Bensky that describes a dose-dependent effect on astringency says that in dosages of less than 0.3 grams total dosage it is astringent.>> Julie, Karen, In the book Herbal Drugs and Phytopharmaceuticals, edited and translated from German by Norman Grainger Bisset, indications are: as a laxative (1.0 - 2.0 grams) or as an astringent and stomachic (0.1 to 0.2 grams). In the German Commission E Monograph: ..average daily dose as a laxative, 30-120mg hydroxyanthracene derivatives, corresponding to 1.2-4.8g crude drug: average daily dose as a stomachic, 3-9mg hydroxyanthracene derivatives, corresponding to 0.12-0.36g crude drug. Stephen Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2000 Report Share Posted October 4, 2000 Dear Karen, Thank you so much for your info on Da Huang. Your answers are always so complete and informative, I usually print them and save them in a binder. I appreciate it a lot! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2000 Report Share Posted October 5, 2000 , Karen S Vaughan < creationsgarden@j...> wrote: .. > > Bet " 0'.3 grams/kg " is a typo. that was my first thought. math trumps all. good work,Julie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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