grinding

[Guest guest]

Sebastian wrote:

So Peter, I would like have details of how you do your Grinding?

What kind of machines, what companies and prices, what kind of herbs

possible to grind, and other expericences (amounts)...

 

=============

 

Well, I wrote about this before when we were discussing cook time, so I'll

try to keep it relatively brief...

I started grinding herbs for two reasons:

 

(1) Easier preparation for patient

The patient gets the entire formula, ground, in a teabag.

They let it soak until saturated (doesn't take long)

Bring it to a boil & immediately reduce to a low simmer (covered).

A. If the formula is entirely acrid / aromatic / light herbs, I have them

simmer for 0-5 minutes (depending on the herbs) and then remove from heat &

allow to infuse for 15 minutes.

B. If the formula is all tonics / heavy / relatively non-volatile herbs, I

will have them simmer it for 5-30 minutes (or more, depending on the herbs).

C. If the formula is a mixture of deep and superficial (light & heavy or

volatile & involatile) herbs, I will either have them do a first cook as

described in A and then add more water and cook as described in B, OR, if I

think the patient REALLY needs it to be easy, I will put the volatile herbs

in a separate teabag, have them cook the other herbs as described in B, and

then add the volatile herbs at the end & allow to infuse.

 

(2) Lower dosages & therefore decreased cost for patient

While one of my former teachers told me dosages of herbs can be cut by 50%

when herbs are ground (because of the increased surface area), I don't think

such a blanket statement can be made. Some light herbs (Bo He, Ju Hua, Sang

Ye, etc.) probably yield tea that is only slightly more potent when they are

ground, since they have such high surface area to begin with. Perhaps the

dosages of leaves and flowers could be decreased by 20% (depending on the

herb) - this is something we'll have to determine through experience.

Thick, woody herbs, on the other hand, yield signigicantly stronger tea in

much less time, when ground. The 50% rule might be applicable with herbs

such as Dan Shen, Bai Zhu, Ling Zhi, Ku Shen, Mao Dong Qing, etc. (at least,

based on the cuts I've been getting).

This seems to work well, but it needs some refinement.

 

I got my grinder from United Pacific company. 800-790-4888. The original

price was $650, and it was marked down to $400. If you speak Chinese, you

can bargain with them. (They could tell I'm an American, so I got the

catalog price.) They have a few different models, but this one (I believe

it's called the RT-06, but can't be sure) seemed the best for me. I think

it's Taiwanese. The canister holds an average-size, 10-herb, one-day

formula. Most herbs are a coarse powder in 10 seconds or less. I haven't

tried Dai Zhe Shi, Mo Yao, or San Qi, but it seems to do fine with woody

herbs. Gummy herbs (Shu Di, Huang Jing...) are best combined with other dry

herbs. Otherwise, they can stick to the blades.

[Guest guest]

oh, by the way, I probably don't have to mention this, but

obviously the dosages & short cook times I mentioned in the previous email

don't apply for all herbs (e.g. Fu Zi!!)

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know how a grinder compares to a Vitamix? I've been using a

Vitamix for years. If I have either too little or too much in the 2

quart container, it doesn't evenly pulverize, but in any event it

contains far more than a single bag dosage. I find that it works better

to grind woody things first then to add the other herbs in reverse order

of " grindability " ease.

 

The only real problems I've seen were with cooked ganoderma in very large

chunks where the combination of woodiness and resiiency could defeat the

blades if pieces weren't presliced.

 

(And thank Heavens for the heat sensitive reset button, or I might have

burned the motor out many times over.)

 

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

" Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they

are. " --Malcolm Forbes

 

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[Guest guest]

As to grinding:

I also had big problems with grinding E Jiao when the heat of the grinding

melted it inside the grinder. It took half a day to scrape the insides and

the blades.

And then there were the couple of times when the top wiggled itself loose

during the grinding and it was herbs all over the room. (And usually it was

E jiao again which can be very hard and sharp- not a pleasant experience.)

If I were doing a lot of grinding now I would build a " Starbucks " like

soundproof box with the switch on the outside that would keep down the

noise. I used to put the grinder in the closet, throw a towel over it,

throw the switch and flee for 30 seconds.

As you can tell, I have fond memories of this process, now I let the people

at Quali-herb do it for me.

 

 

 

>The only real problems I've seen were with cooked ganoderma in very large

>chunks where the combination of woodiness and resiiency could defeat the

>blades if pieces weren't presliced.

>

>(And thank Heavens for the heat sensitive reset button, or I might have

>burned the motor out many times over.)

 

L.Ac.

acupuncture & herbs

safe, compassionate care

 

1823 Wilshire Blvd. #610

Santa Monica, CA

90403

310 264-9197

[Guest guest]

I got my grinder from United Pacific company. 800-790-4888. The originalprice was $650, a

>>>>>Kwak Sing in SF has all the herbs in powder form

alon

 

-

Peter Borten

Saturday, October 07, 2000 4:14 AM

Re: grinding

Sebastian wrote:So Peter, I would like have details of how you do your Grinding?What kind of machines, what companies and prices, what kind of herbspossible to grind, and other expericences (amounts)...=============Well, I wrote about this before when we were discussing cook time, so I'lltry to keep it relatively brief...I started grinding herbs for two reasons:(1) Easier preparation for patientThe patient gets the entire formula, ground, in a teabag.They let it soak until saturated (doesn't take long)Bring it to a boil & immediately reduce to a low simmer (covered).A. If the formula is entirely acrid / aromatic / light herbs, I have themsimmer for 0-5 minutes (depending on the herbs) and then remove from heat & allow to infuse for 15 minutes.B. If the formula is all tonics / heavy / relatively non-volatile herbs, Iwill have them simmer it for 5-30 minutes (or more, depending on the herbs).C. If the formula is a mixture of deep and superficial (light & heavy orvolatile & involatile) herbs, I will either have them do a first cook asdescribed in A and then add more water and cook as described in B, OR, if Ithink the patient REALLY needs it to be easy, I will put the volatile herbsin a separate teabag, have them cook the other herbs as described in B, andthen add the volatile herbs at the end & allow to infuse.(2) Lower dosages & therefore decreased cost for patientWhile one of my former teachers told me dosages of herbs can be cut by 50%when herbs are ground (because of the increased surface area), I don't thinksuch a blanket statement can be made. Some light herbs (Bo He, Ju Hua, SangYe, etc.) probably yield tea that is only slightly more potent when they areground, since they have such high surface area to begin with. Perhaps thedosages of leaves and flowers could be decreased by 20% (depending on theherb) - this is something we'll have to determine through experience.Thick, woody herbs, on the other hand, yield signigicantly stronger tea inmuch less time, when ground. The 50% rule might be applicable with herbssuch as Dan Shen, Bai Zhu, Ling Zhi, Ku Shen, Mao Dong Qing, etc. (at least,based on the cuts I've been getting).This seems to work well, but it needs some refinement.I got my grinder from United Pacific company. 800-790-4888. The originalprice was $650, and it was marked down to $400. If you speak Chinese, youcan bargain with them. (They could tell I'm an American, so I got thecatalog price.) They have a few different models, but this one (I believeit's called the RT-06, but can't be sure) seemed the best for me. I thinkit's Taiwanese. The canister holds an average-size, 10-herb, one-dayformula. Most herbs are a coarse powder in 10 seconds or less. I haven'ttried Dai Zhe Shi, Mo Yao, or San Qi, but it seems to do fine with woodyherbs. Gummy herbs (Shu Di, Huang Jing...) are best combined with other dryherbs. Otherwise, they can stick to the blades.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Alon wrote:

>>>>>Kwak Sing in SF has all the herbs in powder form

 

=================

 

Alon,

I believe the herbs should be ground as close as possible to the time they

will be used, since once they're ground they will volatize, oxidize, and

generally lose their Qi much more quickly than when whole. I don't know if

Kwak Sing grinds-to-order or if they keep powdered herbs in stock, but I'd

prefer to do it myself. Also, just as it is thought that interaction

between the herbs while cooking somehow contributes to their synergy, I

think the process of grinding them together (however trivially) contributes

similarly in this way.

[Guest guest]

I don't know ifKwak Sing grinds-to-order or if they keep powdered herbs in stock, but I'dprefer to do it myself.

>>>I dont thing they do. I know Nuherbs does

alon