Guest guest Posted November 10, 2000 Report Share Posted November 10, 2000 I don't know if this is appropriate for the list (So respond privately).. I am looking for sources that discuss latent heat, hidden pathogen etc.. I have Wen Bing, an article by Blackwell entitled " dormant heat " ... that is it... Hopefully appropriate for the group: What is the opinion about this issue (/Dx) and treatment via herbs... Especially the classical usage applied to modern day practice... I know Z'ev has some good information, maybe he could share some thoughts.. As well as others...?? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2000 Report Share Posted November 11, 2000 Practical Dictionary of . Wiseman and Ye. p341 You might also look at biomedical references, as this is also a concept in Western medicine; see eg syphilis. Hope this helps > I don't know if this is appropriate for the list (So respond privately).. I > am looking for sources that discuss latent heat, hidden pathogen etc.. I > have Wen Bing, an article by Blackwell entitled " dormant heat " ... that is > it... > > Hopefully appropriate for the group: What is the opinion about this issue > (/Dx) and treatment via herbs... Especially the classical usage applied to > modern day practice... I know Z'ev has some good information, maybe he could > share some thoughts.. As well as others...?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2000 Report Share Posted November 11, 2000 , <@o...> wrote: > I don't know if this is appropriate for the list (So respond privately).. I > am looking for sources that discuss latent heat, hidden pathogen etc.. I > have Wen Bing, an article by Blackwell entitled " dormant heat " ... that is > it... of course this is a good list topic. the new wen bing xue from paradigm has info on latent heat scattered throughout > > Hopefully appropriate for the group: What is the opinion about this issue > (/Dx) and treatment via herbs... Especially the classical usage applied to > modern day practice.. Flaws has written on this topic in his work on AIDs; can't remember the title. Other info tends to come from folks without access to actual source material, thus of questionable authenticity. I think Charles Chace has done some good translation in this area, but I'm not sure if it is posted or published anywhere. I've just seen class notes and handouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2000 Report Share Posted November 11, 2000 , <@o...> wrote: > > Hopefully appropriate for the group: What is the opinion about this issue > (/Dx) and treatment via herbs... Especially the classical usage applied to > modern day practice. this is my current understanding of one facet of this complex subject: A cold pathogen may invade or lodge in the shaoyin division. Unless the patient has pronounced yang xu, this pathogen will transform to heat over time. It may then express itself in a number of ways. the heat may combine with internal dampness due to spleen xu creating dampheat. this may cause a wide range of digestive and genitourinary diseases. It may also aggravate mingmen fire causing reckless heat to maraud throughout the body. this can cause flareups of liver heat and also heart fire. thus, some mental disturbance may be related to this. In some folks, the pathogen may work its way out from shaoyin via the yang divisions. since taiyang and shaoyin are interiorly-exteriorly connected (bl/si and kd/ht), taiyang symptomology is not uncommon. this may mimic what appears to be an exterior invasion of wind heat or windcold in that there may be sore throat, congestion, etc. However, certain keynote exterior symptoms indicating a true wind invasion are actually often mild or absent. thus, the patient may present with no fever or chills, no floating pulse, etc. The relevance to modern practice may be the frequency with which one encounters so-called colds and flus that present without fever, chills, etc. I have come to suspect and seemed to have confirmed by successful treatment that many such colds may be due to latent heat exteriorizing itself. In this case, the internal heat pathogen must be treated, which is not the case in a pure wind invasion where such an approach is prohibited. Of course, this latent heat may also be a factor in bizarre diseases like MS and other AI diseases. I think it is interesting that current western thought on autoimmunity posits a similar idea, which is that a virus initiates a chain of events that eventually leads to these diseases. the final disease is not considered an infectious disease, but rather a result of the virus leading to immune changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2000 Report Share Posted November 11, 2000 on 11/10/00 8:54 PM, at wrote: > I don't know if this is appropriate for the list (So respond privately).. I > am looking for sources that discuss latent heat, hidden pathogen etc.. I > have Wen Bing, an article by Blackwell entitled " dormant heat " ... that is > it... > > Hopefully appropriate for the group: What is the opinion about this issue > (/Dx) and treatment via herbs... Especially the classical usage applied to > modern day practice... I know Z'ev has some good information, maybe he could > share some thoughts.. As well as others...?? > > - > Dear Jason, In my opinion, this is appropriate to discuss here (anyone disagree?), as Chinese medical theory is essential in prescribing medicinals. The new Wen Bing Xue/Warm Disease Theory text has some material on the subject of latent qi warm disease, especially latent summerheat, and in the spring warmth chapter, and quotes the Nei Jing: " damage by cold during the winter must manifest as warm disease during spring. " There is, of course, more material scattered around in English. . . .Unschuld's first volume of " Medicine in China " has an interesting section that relates to disease-causing winds and latency, pg. 263 onwards from the Huang Di Nei Jing Tai Su by Yang Shang-shan and other unknown authors. One of the best authorities on the subject of latent qi warm disease was Liu Bao-yi, who wrote Wen Re Feng Yuan/A Collection of Source Materials on Warm Heat during the Qing Dynasty. His work is recorded in Wen Bing Ming Zhe Jing Hua./ " Quintessential Readings of Famous Wen Bing Authors " , by Cheng Zeng-xiu and others, Science Technology and Literary Press, 1986. A colleague/friend of mine translated a section of this work, and will be releasing it as an article some time soon, but it is not available yet. An article on Liu Bao-yi is available, written by Donn Hayes at his herb web site, www.ohco.com I believe is the correct address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2000 Report Share Posted November 13, 2000 Thanx all for the Info... Question: (something I cannot find it any literature) If one has latent heat: 1) How does the tx differ from when the heat is latent (no s/s) vs. when surfacing? 2) Does one try to coax the heat out while dormant? 3) Does one treat heat signs when there are none present (latent/dormant)? - > > > Saturday, November 11, 2000 10:41 AM > > Re: Latent Heat/ Hidden Pathogen > > > , <@o...> > wrote: > > > > > Hopefully appropriate for the group: What is the opinion about > this issue > > (/Dx) and treatment via herbs... Especially the classical usage > applied to > > modern day practice. > > this is my current understanding of one facet of this complex subject: > > A cold pathogen may invade or lodge in the shaoyin division. Unless > the patient has pronounced yang xu, this pathogen will transform to > heat over time. It may then express itself in a number of ways. the > heat may combine with internal dampness due to spleen xu creating > dampheat. this may cause a wide range of digestive and genitourinary > diseases. It may also aggravate mingmen fire causing reckless heat to > maraud throughout the body. this can cause flareups of liver heat and > also heart fire. thus, some mental disturbance may be related to this. > > In some folks, the pathogen may work its way out from shaoyin via the > yang divisions. since taiyang and shaoyin are interiorly-exteriorly > connected (bl/si and kd/ht), taiyang symptomology is not uncommon. > this may mimic what appears to be an exterior invasion of wind heat or > windcold in that there may be sore throat, congestion, etc. However, > certain keynote exterior symptoms indicating a true wind invasion are > actually often mild or absent. thus, the patient may present with no > fever or chills, no floating pulse, etc. The relevance to modern > practice may be the frequency with which one encounters so-called colds > and flus that present without fever, chills, etc. I have come to > suspect and seemed to have confirmed by successful treatment that many > such colds may be due to latent heat exteriorizing itself. In this > case, the internal heat pathogen must be treated, which is not the case > in a pure wind invasion where such an approach is prohibited. > > Of course, this latent heat may also be a factor in bizarre diseases > like MS and other AI diseases. I think it is interesting that current > western thought on autoimmunity posits a similar idea, which is that a > virus initiates a chain of events that eventually leads to these > diseases. the final disease is not considered an infectious disease, > but rather a result of the virus leading to immune changes. > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a > variety of professional services, including board approved online > continuing education. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2000 Report Share Posted November 13, 2000 on 11/13/00 3:50 PM, at wrote: > Thanx all for the Info... > Question: (something I cannot find it any literature) > > If one has latent heat: > 1) How does the tx differ from when the heat is latent (no s/s) vs. when > surfacing? > 2) Does one try to coax the heat out while dormant? > 3) Does one treat heat signs when there are none present (latent/dormant)? > > - > > Jason, Excellant questions, but I am limited with time and space (in an e-mail) to give in-depth answers. 1) With latent heat, one either vents the heat up from the blood or constructive aspect (ying/xue fen) to the qi aspect, and then precipitates the heat through the yang ming with da huang prescriptions, or vents the heat through the surface, with shi gao prescriptions. 2) When dormant, the heat is often difficult to find. If so, one uses the strategy of clearing heat from the blood, as one possibility. 3) There is a prescription fu zheng jie du tang/support the correct overcome toxicity decoction, which combines medicinals to supplement the qi, raise the yang qi, and clear heat from the blood that can be used with dormant/latent heat, as in asymptomatic HIV patients or Hep C patients where it is known that the patient is infected, but is not yet manifesting clear disease signs. However, the pulse may be slightly rapid, and the tongue a light red color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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