Hidden Subversions by CWchace

[Guest guest]

CWChace wrote:

Dear Friends,

Interestingly, It looks to me as if the threads of two separate discussions

have become interwoven. The issue of the relevancy of mainstream

or orthodox

Chinese medical literature is directly germane to the ongoing discussion

of

latent heat.

While oral traditions are an undisputed store of useful information,

it is a

well-established fact that they are no less subject to the social and

political whims of the day than are written traditions. If ever there

was a

politically incorrect written tradition it is the wen bing school.

As Marta

Hansen has pointed out, the multiplicity of theories posited by practitioners

from various provinces to explain the variety of phenomena they were

observing flew in the face of the imperial thearchy. How could there

be one

law under heaven executed by the holder of the mandate of heaven if

you

needed different medical theories to explain what was afflicting the

residents of adjoining provinces? Previous to this the Shang Han theories

sufficed for all. Wen Bing was a subversive movement in its own right.

For myself, the relevance of this to the present latent heat discussion

is

that we must remain sensitive to the environments in which we practice.may treat fire with fire by favoring acrid warm surface resolving strategies

but that won't necessarily work in Boulder Colorado where things are

not only

cold but godawful dry

(moderator's note: to set the record straight, it was not me who made

this suggestion, but sometimes who said what can lost in the threads.

I actually rarely have had opportunity to treat fire with fire in this

way. I believe my position concurs more with what Chip states below.

Which is to say that wind cold is often a factor in the common cold, thus

warm acrid resolving medicinals are typically necessary. and that

the premature use of yin qiao san weakens the wei qi and leads to latency.

but also that what appears to be an external heat invasion may sometimes

be the exteriorizing of latent heat, thus calling for the use of internal

heat clearing medicinals. As for climate, I am very sensitive to

this factor, as well. I have posted extensively in the past on the

manifestation of AIDs as a cold damp syndrome in the northwest, for example.

TL)

..

For me, the defining criteria for discriminating between wind cold and

wind

heat is whether the illness began with chills or feverishness. If there

was

even an hour of chills at the onset then it will be necessary to include

a

mild component of acrid warm surface resolvers into the prescription

even if

the pathogen has subsequently transmuted into heat.

I find that the other key to preventing latency is to avoid premature

administration of bitter cold medicinals. I'm quite clear that "antiviral"

antibiotic" meds like Ban Lan Gen foster latency. A frothy tirade of

mine on

this topic recently appeared in the June 2000 JCM. I remain as dubious

regarding my own opinions as most everyone else does, however, a number

of

the Senior Chinese physicians whose perspectives and more recently

Ken,

have endorsed corroberate this position. Not the least of these is

Qin Bowei,

who goes so far as to warn against the premature prescribing of Yin

Qiao San,

the very benchmark of cool-mild surface-resolving formulas. Be that

as it

may, I'm sure that some equally venerable authority will eventually

appear to

dispute this contention. This too, is an example of the abiding tolerance

Chinese medicine exhibits for conflicting and sometimes even blatantly

wrong-headed ideas.

Sincerely

Chip

 

 

[Guest guest]

on 11/21/00 9:49 AM, Todd at wrote:

 

CWChace wrote:

Dear Friends,

Interestingly, It looks to me as if the threads of two separate discussions

have become interwoven. The issue of the relevancy of mainstream or orthodox

Chinese medical literature is directly germane to the ongoing discussion of

latent heat.

 

While oral traditions are an undisputed store of useful information, it is a

well-established fact that they are no less subject to the social and

political whims of the day than are written traditions. If ever there was a

politically incorrect written tradition it is the wen bing school. As Marta

Hansen has pointed out, the multiplicity of theories posited by practitioners

from various provinces to explain the variety of phenomena they were

observing flew in the face of the imperial thearchy. How could there be one

law under heaven executed by the holder of the mandate of heaven if you

needed different medical theories to explain what was afflicting the

residents of adjoining provinces? Previous to this the Shang Han theories

sufficed for all. Wen Bing was a subversive movement in its own right.

 

For myself, the relevance of this to the present latent heat discussion is

that we must remain sensitive to the environments in which we practice. Todd

may treat fire with fire by favoring acrid warm surface resolving strategies

but that won't necessarily work in Boulder Colorado where things are not only

cold but godawful dry

(moderator's note: to set the record straight, it was not me who made this suggestion, but sometimes who said what can lost in the threads. I actually rarely have had opportunity to treat fire with fire in this way. I believe my position concurs more with what Chip states below. Which is to say that wind cold is often a factor in the common cold, thus warm acrid resolving medicinals are typically necessary. and that the premature use of yin qiao san weakens the wei qi and leads to latency. but also that what appears to be an external heat invasion may sometimes be the exteriorizing of latent heat, thus calling for the use of internal heat clearing medicinals. As for climate, I am very sensitive to this factor, as well. I have posted extensively in the past on the manifestation of AIDs as a cold damp syndrome in the northwest, for example. TL)

..

 

For me, the defining criteria for discriminating between wind cold and wind

heat is whether the illness began with chills or feverishness. If there was

even an hour of chills at the onset then it will be necessary to include a

mild component of acrid warm surface resolvers into the prescription even if

the pathogen has subsequently transmuted into heat.

 

I find that the other key to preventing latency is to avoid premature

administration of bitter cold medicinals. I'm quite clear that " antiviral "

antibiotic " meds like Ban Lan Gen foster latency. A frothy tirade of mine on

this topic recently appeared in the June 2000 JCM. I remain as dubious

regarding my own opinions as most everyone else does, however, a number of

the Senior Chinese physicians whose perspectives and more recently Ken,

have endorsed corroberate this position. Not the least of these is Qin Bowei,

who goes so far as to warn against the premature prescribing of Yin Qiao San,

the very benchmark of cool-mild surface-resolving formulas. Be that as it

may, I'm sure that some equally venerable authority will eventually appear to

dispute this contention. This too, is an example of the abiding tolerance

Chinese medicine exhibits for conflicting and sometimes even blatantly

wrong-headed ideas.

 

Sincerely

 

Chip

 

 

Well stated, Chip and Todd.

I would add that Chip gave me an article to translate several years ago, " Gui Zhi Tang in the Treatment of Warm Disease " that pertains to this thread. It is available in the archives via the web site. I'd appreciate comments on this author's ideas.

 

 

[Guest guest]

If there was even an hour of chills at the onset then it will be necessary to include a mild component of acrid warm surface resolvers into the prescription even if the pathogen has subsequently transmuted into heat.

>>>How often can your patient answer these questions? I must see a selected population. They have very difficult time remembering this type of info.

This one reason I often use a neutral approach I learned in China.

Alon

[Guest guest]

, " " <

zrosenberg@e...> wrote:

 

> I would add that Chip gave me an article to translate several years ago,

> " Gui Zhi Tang in the Treatment of Warm Disease " that pertains to this

> thread. It is available in the archives via the web

> site. I'd appreciate comments on this author's ideas.

>

>

---------------

 

How do I find this? I've looked in files, and I can't see any reference

to archives.

 

Rory