Guest guest Posted December 13, 2000 Report Share Posted December 13, 2000 Pat I don't know much about the processing except that on pictures of the factories the herbs are put in in large stainless vats and boiled etc. This brings the question to me about the cooking procedures .Traditionally we use clay pots and shouldn't use metal....yet the granules are prepared in stainless steel. And they work. For many years I stayed away from granules but when the individual herbs came out I started stock piling and using them. My practise is now about half granules and half raw herbs.....where as before I probably lost about half my patients I guess!! The dosage/weight varies. Todd recently said that some practitioners are using up to 20 grams per day. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2000 Report Share Posted December 14, 2000 Jason wrote Heiko, Do you prescribe formula's with both granules and raw herbs together? -JAson No , its one or the other . Very occasionally if I have run out of a raw herb I give a supply of the granule to add to the decoction. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2000 Report Share Posted December 14, 2000 Pat When making a formula the proportion of granules or raw herbs is the same. Eg in BZYQT in a raw herb formula if you wanted a high dose of Huang Qi eg 30 grams and still a low dose of Sheng Ma eg 1 gram and 3 grams of Chai Hu etc you could weigh out the formula in granules in those same proportions . You may then decide to give that formula 3 grams of granules 2 times per day . It can vary a lot and ther has been a bit of discussion on this list already on doses and weights. In Chinatown in Sydney I saw some practitioners when presribing raw herbs commonly give 16-20 herbs and many of them such as di gu pi 30g , tian hua fen 30 g , huang qi 30 g..... so ended up being pretty big formulas . Other times they would prescibe 6-8 herbs at 6-9 grams each for the same size person and same sex. Sometimes they would give 6 packets per week and sometimes 2 packets. I am not sure of the different companies that make granules in the States or Europe . I use a company called CHINAWEST . Some companies I believe are more concentrated than others but I can't advise there. And yes , Heiko is German . Auf wiedersehen Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 does anybody have a good link or comment about granules: it's exact processing - it's dosage (1:5 ? compared to raw herbs) - changes of properties .....? thanks, pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 " Patrick, Tim Rudolph " wrote: > > does anybody have a good link or comment about granules: > it's exact processing - it's dosage (1:5 ? compared to raw herbs) - > changes of properties .....? http://Acupuncture.com/Herbology/Dose.htm That might help you. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2001 Report Share Posted January 10, 2001 Heiko, Do you prescribe formula's with both granules and raw herbs together? -JAson heiko [heiko] Wednesday, December 13, 2000 9:03 AM Re:Granula Pat I don't know much about the processing except that on pictures of the factories the herbs are put in in large stainless vats and boiled etc. This brings the question to me about the cooking procedures .Traditionally we use clay pots and shouldn't use metal....yet the granules are prepared in stainless steel. And they work. For many years I stayed away from granules but when the individual herbs came out I started stock piling and using them. My practise is now about half granules and half raw herbs.....where as before I probably lost about half my patients I guess!! The dosage/weight varies. Todd recently said that some practitioners are using up to 20 grams per day. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote: > And they work. > For many years I stayed away from granules but when the individual herbs > came out I started stock piling and using them. My practise is now about > half granules and half raw herbs.....where as before I probably lost about > half my patients I guess!! - so is the difference in the effect, or is it only less work for the patient? - if there was a difference between raw and granules, which one would it be? when do you use the one or the other? > The dosage/weight varies. Todd recently said that some practitioners are > using up to 20 grams per day. - how do you write a prescription with granules? I'm used to raw herbs dosage, so what interests me is how to translate the difference between i.e. 3 or 6 g of bupleurum. Or what is the dosage of each herb inside of a classical formula like, say Buzhong Yiqi Tang when you use granules. Not so much the weight of the prescription as a whole. last question to heiko: are you german? your name sounds a lot like it. thanks for your replies pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2001 Report Share Posted January 11, 2001 how do you write a prescription with granules? I'm >>>>1 1/2 g equals 3 chin alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2001 Report Share Posted January 12, 2001 > > - how do you write a prescription with granules? I'm used to raw > herbs dosage, so what interests me is how to translate the difference > between i.e. 3 or 6 g of bupleurum. Or what is the dosage of each > herb inside of a classical formula like, say Buzhong Yiqi Tang when > you use granules. Not so much the weight of the prescription as a > whole. Pat, Andy Ellis at Spring Wind Herbs has a great instruction sheet for making the conversion. (Called: Using Herb Concentrates) You can find him at: Spring Wind Herbs 2325 Fourth Street Berkeley, CA 94710 (510) 849-1820 It helped me to make the switch and I find much more compliance with patients since doing so. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2001 Report Share Posted January 12, 2001 I use granules in my practise. It is my understanding that they vary in concentration - even from a single supplier. (I use KPC from Golden Flower Chinese herbs). Plant substances are decocted differently from minerals and animal/insect. I have not been able to find any solid data on the differences, precisely which are 4:1 (typical for plant products), and which are otherwise ie Chan Tui, Ci Shi, etc. Therefore thus far I have been using my own judgement, not hard data on some of the proportions for conversions. I typically use 9 to 12 grams per day for adults, more for acute EPI and physical pathologies of a traumatic sort. I think it would be great to have some more discussion and information exchanged on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2001 Report Share Posted January 21, 2001 AN INTEGRATED ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE PROGRAMThe Alternative Medicine Oncology Clinic has added a new dimension tocancer symptom management at St. Vincent's Medical Center in Los Angeles.Oncology Issues 15(6):14-15, 2000.http://primarycare.medscape.com/32685.rhtml?srcmp=pc-011901<a href="http://primarycare.medscape.com/32685.rhtml?srcmp=pc-011901"> Readit Here</a>THE ABCS OF COMPLEMENTARY AND ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES AND CANCER TREATMENTRead an overview of the most commonly requested complementary therapies bycancer patients.Oncology Issues 15(6):20-22, 2000.http://primarycare.medscape.com/32712.rhtml?srcmp=pc-011901<a href="http://primarycare.medscape.com/32712.rhtml?srcmp=pc-011901"> Readit Here</a>Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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