Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 I would like to share a case history that turned up at the college clinic the other day.Its not in the official CHA format as I hope the discussion will be about dosages of herbs and I have explained the case cleaqrly enough. Female age 40 presents with sinus and sore throat which started a week before and has stayed chronic.It started after driving up the coast for the weekend. Cycles normal, regular, sx low mild abd pain day before. sx temple headaches if too busy and stressed tinnitus if tired flushed cheeks in afternoon sx hot chest ,esp after shower Tongue red no coat Pulse, kidney yin position thready,thin weak. This was a pretty classic yin xu case if I ever saw one. The students were keen to start acupuncture to Rx yin xu but I questioned her further. Everything got worse for her after she started these pills!!! And she pulled out a bottle of xiao yao wan. A physiotherapist had prescibed them for her to " cleanse her liver " .She had gone to the physio a month earlier for shoulder and neck tension. I questioned her how did she feel on them? " Its hard to explain , not myself, actually I thought they were hyping me up , I wasn't sleeping well and thought they were making me sweat at night. " The physio said this was because they were cleansing!! Anyway she stopped when she got the sore throat. So what is interesting about this is that she was taking ONLY 8 little ball bearing pills 2 times per day. Its clear to me that she is yin xu and xiao yao san because of chai hu in particular is contraindicated in yin xu . The pills aggravated the yin xu .When ever I have tried to subscibe patent pills to patients I never get any results ,because I felt they are too weak in action. Yet here they can clearly aggravate if wrongly prescribed.Does this mean that they could benefit in those really low doses ,eg using liu wei di huang wan in a kid xu condition.........or does it mean a little bit of chai hu can go a long way if its wrongly prescibed. Heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 , Heiko Lade <heiko@l...> wrote: ..or does it mean a little bit of chai hu can go a long way if its wrongly prescibed. This patient was probably a strong reactor, as are about 20% of the population, probably higher amongst american patients of alt.med. the same folks who can prove homeopathic remedies. It will be interesting to see how she rsponds to other formulas. And yes, I believe such patients can get therapeutic benefit from smaller doses sometimes. But ,many of these folks react to all pharmacological doses of anything and can only take homeopathy and acupuncture.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 on 2/14/01 7:19 AM, at wrote: > , Heiko Lade <heiko@l...> wrote: > > .or does it mean a little bit of chai hu can go a long way if its > wrongly prescibed. > > > This patient was probably a strong reactor, as are about 20% of the > population, probably higher amongst american patients of alt.med. the > same folks who can prove homeopathic remedies. It will be interesting > to see how she rsponds to other formulas. > > And yes, I believe such patients can get therapeutic benefit from > smaller doses sometimes. But ,many of these folks react to all > pharmacological doses of anything and can only take homeopathy and > acupuncture.. > > .. . . . .and some of those cannot take acupuncture, either. Several years ago, I had a 'chronic fatigue' patient who took one dose of chai hu gui zhi tang and vomited, followed by severe headache. Two needle treatments, she would cry for half an hour. Even ear needles evoked the same reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 Dear Z'ev, I think , some patient do not believe in needle and herb, so their mind block out of the treatment then those symptom was happening. I used to treated some patient like that, but by my energy contact hand. I received my energy come back and hurt myself very badly. I looked at the patient and told her : " You do not believe my treatment, that why my energy come back and hurt me so bad. You've got to believe me other why I do not treat you any more. The patient got surprise. She change her attitude, then my energy got through. You might convince her that Chinese herb as not as same western pills, it need to coop by patient's mind. Nhung Ta - <zrosenberg Wednesday, February 14, 2001 10:47 AM Re: Re: dosage issue again > on 2/14/01 7:19 AM, at wrote: > > > , Heiko Lade <heiko@l...> wrote: > > > > .or does it mean a little bit of chai hu can go a long way if its > > wrongly prescibed. > > > > > > This patient was probably a strong reactor, as are about 20% of the > > population, probably higher amongst american patients of alt.med. the > > same folks who can prove homeopathic remedies. It will be interesting > > to see how she rsponds to other formulas. > > > > And yes, I believe such patients can get therapeutic benefit from > > smaller doses sometimes. But ,many of these folks react to all > > pharmacological doses of anything and can only take homeopathy and > > acupuncture.. > > > > > > . . . . .and some of those cannot take acupuncture, either. Several years > ago, I had a 'chronic fatigue' patient who took one dose of chai hu gui zhi > tang and vomited, followed by severe headache. Two needle treatments, she > would cry for half an hour. Even ear needles evoked the same reaction. > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 on 2/14/01 11:03 AM, Nhung Ta at nhung.ta wrote: > Dear Z'ev, > I think , some patient do not believe in needle and > herb, so their mind block out of the treatment then those symptom was > happening. I used to treated some patient like that, but by my energy > contact hand. I received my energy come back and hurt myself very badly. I > looked at the patient and told her : " You do not believe my treatment, that > why my energy come back and hurt me so bad. You've got to believe me other > why I do not treat you any more. The patient got surprise. She change her > attitude, then my energy got through. You might convince her that Chinese > herb as not as same western pills, it need to coop by patient's mind. > Nhung Ta Dear Nhung, Your point is well taken. . . .I agree about mental mobilization in treatment. However, in this case (over ten years ago), the issue was the use of chai hu in a very sensitive, weakened patient, with a lot of emotional issues going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.