Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 In a message dated 3/23/01 6:37:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, bob writes: << Ill-advised and over-training are frequently the problem in youth sports and high-school level coaching can be truly abysmal. >> Dear Bob, thank you. Yes, I agree, the coaching/training seems inadequate. They seem to know only Ice, for everything. I have 2 basketball players as sons, and they have been given horrible advice for everything from knee injuries to weight training. Anyone know of a good PT or sports therapist in the Santa Monica area? Alon, your advice about anatomical abnormalities is interesting. Both kids are extremely broad shouldered and narrow in the waist and hips -- natural shape for swimmers. I don't know how to tell if anything is abnormal. The school trainer diagnosed " tendonitis. " Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Julie, > The problems do resolve with rest (the female > swimmer skipped practice one day, and pain improved). So I did refer them > to their school trainer for help with the warmups and exercises. As an over-age yet still occasionally competitive swimmer who is starting with my third son in youth sports, I would be less than surprised if their school trainer gives them stretches as warm-ups, then their coach gives them pull exercises that stress their shoulders. You may also find the pitcher is being coached to throw an ``over the top'' curve ball that further stresses the rotator cuff and upper back. Also, perhaps not incidentally, many young athletes over- stretch. If you teach them to stimulate local acupoints with acupressure as part of their warm-up routines, it is very likely to help. Acupressure is also an excellent warm-up for weight-training, which they may be doing on their own without much coaching. If that is the case, (or if there is an enthusiastic but un-trained Dad in the mix), you might check that they are not using too much weight or using free weights inappropriately. Ill-advised and over-training are frequently the problem in youth sports and high-school level coaching can be truly abysmal. Bob bob Paradigm Publications www.paradigm-pubs.com 44 Linden Street Robert L. Felt Brookline MA 02445 617-738-4664 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Also, perhaps not incidentally, many young athletes over- > stretch. All good advice, Bob. Specifically, what do you mean by overstretch? Are you referring to stretching that is too hard, ie. that pushes the envelope too far, or too frequent stretching, or stretching before warmup, or all of the above? Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Alon, your advice about anatomical abnormalities is interesting. Both kids are extremely broad shouldered and narrow in the waist and hips -- natural shape for swimmers. I don't know how to tell if anything is abnormal. The school trainer diagnosed "tendonitis.">>>>They need a shoulder x-ray, mostly to evaluate for type II acromien Alon - juliej8 Friday, March 23, 2001 7:36 AM Re: Youth sports/shoulder problems In a message dated 3/23/01 6:37:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, bob writes:<< Ill-advised and over-training are frequently the problem in youth sports and high-school level coaching can be truly abysmal. >>Dear Bob, thank you. Yes, I agree, the coaching/training seems inadequate. They seem to know only Ice, for everything. I have 2 basketball players as sons, and they have been given horrible advice for everything from knee injuries to weight training. Anyone know of a good PT or sports therapist in the Santa Monica area?Alon, your advice about anatomical abnormalities is interesting. Both kids are extremely broad shouldered and narrow in the waist and hips -- natural shape for swimmers. I don't know how to tell if anything is abnormal. The school trainer diagnosed "tendonitis."JulieChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Also, perhaps not incidentally, many young athletes over-stretch. >>>>This also true for adults. Many people have tight muscles as a result of instability. Stretching only makes things worse Alon - Robert L. Felt Friday, March 23, 2001 6:33 AM Youth sports/shoulder problems Julie,> The problems do resolve with rest (the female> swimmer skipped practice one day, and pain improved). So I did refer them> to their school trainer for help with the warmups and exercises.As an over-age yet still occasionally competitive swimmer who is starting with my third son in youth sports, I would be less than surprised if their school trainer gives them stretches as warm-ups, then their coach gives them pull exercises that stress their shoulders. You may also find the pitcher is being coached to throw an ``over the top'' curve ball that further stresses the rotator cuff and upper back. Also, perhaps not incidentally, many young athletes over-stretch. If you teach them to stimulate local acupoints with acupressure as part of their warm-up routines, it is very likely to help. Acupressure is also an excellent warm-up for weight-training, which they may be doing on their own without much coaching. If that is the case, (or if there is an enthusiastic but un-trained Dad in the mix), you might check that they are not using too much weight or using free weights inappropriately. Ill-advised and over-training are frequently the problem in youth sports and high-school level coaching can be truly abysmal. Bobbob Paradigm Publicationswww.paradigm-pubs.com 44 Linden StreetRobert L. Felt Brookline MA 02445617-738-4664Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2001 Report Share Posted March 23, 2001 Also, perhaps not incidentally, many young athletes over-stretch. >>>>This also true for adults. Many people have tight muscles as a result of instability. Stretching only makes things worse Alon The issue of tight muscles as it relates to instability is an interesting reality that I only recently became aware of. My understanding is that as we age our ligaments streach and perform poorly in holding our structure in proper place and alignment. When this occurs the muscles compensate for the slack ligaments by tightening, in a sense go into constant state of mild to moderate spasm. Is this what you are referring to? If so, how do you personally treat this type of condition? Acupuncture, internal or external herbs, herbal trigger point injections...? Stephen Morrissey - Robert L. Felt Friday, March 23, 2001 6:33 AM Youth sports/shoulder problems Julie,> The problems do resolve with rest (the female> swimmer skipped practice one day, and pain improved). So I did refer them> to their school trainer for help with the warmups and exercises.As an over-age yet still occasionally competitive swimmer who is starting with my third son in youth sports, I would be less than surprised if their school trainer gives them stretches as warm-ups, then their coach gives them pull exercises that stress their shoulders. You may also find the pitcher is being coached to throw an ``over the top'' curve ball that further stresses the rotator cuff and upper back. Also, perhaps not incidentally, many young athletes over-stretch. If you teach them to stimulate local acupoints with acupressure as part of their warm-up routines, it is very likely to help. Acupressure is also an excellent warm-up for weight-training, which they may be doing on their own without much coaching. If that is the case, (or if there is an enthusiastic but un-trained Dad in the mix), you might check that they are not using too much weight or using free weights inappropriately. Ill-advised and over-training are frequently the problem in youth sports and high-school level coaching can be truly abysmal. Bobbob Paradigm Publicationswww.paradigm-pubs.com 44 Linden StreetRobert L. Felt Brookline MA 02445617-738-4664Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 At 10:36 AM -0500 3/23/01, juliej8 wrote: >I don't know how to tell if anything is abnormal. The >school trainer diagnosed " tendonitis. " -- I recommend that you ask them both to get a swimming trainer (not just 'a trainer' or 'a coach') to analyze and correct their technique. Poor body motion in swimming is often compensated for by shoulder power, leading to injury. You will not have any lasting success with acupuncture (or any other treatment), if their technique is the cause of the problem. The improvement after taking time out from swimming suggests that this may be the cause. Rory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 When this occurs the muscles compensate for the slack ligaments by tightening, in a sense go into constant state of mild to moderate spasm. Is this what you are referring to? If so, how do you personally treat this type of condition? Acupuncture, internal or external herbs, herbal trigger point injections...? >>>>>Yes that is what I was referring to. I combine manual therapy to make sure there is no restriction somewhere contributing to the instability. I use dry needling at supporting ligaments, trigger point needling to address facilitated muscles, internal and external herbs when appropriate and rehabilitation exercises. If patient still unstable I refer to Prolo. By the way who did your prolo Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2001 Report Share Posted March 24, 2001 By the way who did your prolo Alon Simon Voitanic MD, a Russian trained Physiatrist practicing in both Park City, UT and Salt Lake City. If Prolotherapy or triggerpoint injection are what is needed, I recommend him. However, from my investigation of those using the this form of treatment, their diagnostic methods don't usually include MRI which from my view, should be one of the methods to assess the applicability of Prolo. Stephen Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2001 Report Share Posted March 25, 2001 .. However, from my investigation of those using the this form of treatment, their diagnostic methods don't usually include MRI which from my view, should be one of the methods to assess the applicability of Prolo. >>>>Actually MRI gives you very little information that can not be gotten clinically. A power reading will sometime show HIZ on T2 views that may suggest internal disc disruption that cam look like anything else clinically. One of the problems in the management of musculoskeletal disorders is too much reliance of imaging technology. The bigger problem is that too many people doing prolo are fixated on ligaments. Also too many are poorly trained in manual med. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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