Guest guest Posted April 20, 2001 Report Share Posted April 20, 2001 , " Derek High " <derekh@i...> wrote: > Dear members, > > I have been given 2 pieces of deer antler (Lu Rong) and subsequently now have 2 questions that I would appreciate some feedback on: > > 1) Ethics > > I believe that when the young antlers are cut from the deer, this is a " relatively painless " though messy procedure It is my understanding that this is an extremely cruel and painful procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2001 Report Share Posted April 20, 2001 Hi Derek, I will assume that you have checked the deer horn for calcification and that the material has been properly dried when it was harvested. The first thing to note is that deer horn is an extremely powerful Yang tonic. When you are powdering it or grinding it down, wear a mask. When you have a course powder, weight it and put it in a mason jar and saturate the powder with a 70% alcohol solution, ie whet it until there is a sheen at the surface. Cap the jar and place it in an incubator for a few days. I have found cold percolating to be the most efficient extracting method. A homemade percolator can be made as follows. Take a plastic pop bottle, cut out the bottom. Wash everything carefully. Place some cheesecloth in the neck and a coffee filter over the cheese cloth. The cap tightness can be adjusted to control the rate of flow. After the incubation period, place the saturated material in the coffee filter and percolate enough extraction fluid (70% alcohol) so that you end up with either a 3:1 or 4:1 tincture meaning that if you start with 30 grams of horn you end up with 90 to 120 ml of tincture. You can percolate 2 or 3 times. Put the percolate in a bottle and shake before use, as some of the extracted material can precipitate. The tincture should be reddish. Additional material (ie glue) can be obtained by subjecting the mark (materal left in the filter after percolation) to a hot reflux extraction process. It also has a therapeutic use. A spagyric version can also be prepared. Be really careful on the dosage. Potent stuff. Yep, info on processing can be hard to find. Cheers, Gilbert >>> " Derek High " <derekh 20/04/2001 7:26:05 PM >>> Dear members, I have been given 2 pieces of deer antler (Lu Rong) and subsequently now have 2 questions that I would appreciate some feedback on: 1) Ethics I believe that when the young antlers are cut from the deer, this is a " relatively painless " though messy procedure ( they are made to run before the antlers are cut off so that blood circulation to the antlers is maximized). Does anybody have any specific information or experience regarding the removal of deer antlers, especially if this is a relatively painless experience for the deer, as is claimed? This, of course, begs the question of whether we should be using animal products such as this, in the first place. 2) Preparation Every textbook I have looked at gives a different version of how to prepare Lu Rong. Does anybody have any experience in preparing Lu Rong? If so, how did you prepare it exactly? Was it similar to commercially bought Lu Rong? Yours in anticipation, Derek High Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2001 Report Share Posted April 20, 2001 , acugirlnyc@a... wrote: > It requires that antlers be cut with " a clean and sharp saw " and that > " hemorrhaging from severed blood vessels be controlled " . Deer are farmed or > " harvested " from the wild. > > Now, this is what takes place in _ideal_ conditions in a _western_ country. > One can imagine what takes place when deer antlers are harvested in China. I used to think the antlers were shed, but I now believe they are cut from " farmed animals " . It is also my understanding that they are NOT sedated in china, nor is the bleeding controlled. I also do not use animal products in my practice that involve cruelty or maiming. I do however use insects and worms and also animals that are farmed for food yielding medicinal byproducts, such as niu huang and gui ban. To me, humane practice is paramount, but many cultures allow the slaughter of animals when done humanely (kosher rituals in judaism, tibetan buddhism, some native american, for examples). However, these medicinals are my last resort. I believe even strict buddhist practitioners of ahimsa make a medicinal exemption in emergencies. I have found I can avoid animals more than 99% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2001 Report Share Posted April 20, 2001 On Friday, April 20, 2001, at 10:53 AM, wrote: >> I hold the same principles as you, Todd. . . .avoid animal products >> that lack compassion to life, avoid toxic insects and worms except >> when absolutely necessary, but use such animal byproducts as oyster >> shell and 'dragon bone'. Even though Chinese 'herbal' medicine is >> zhong yao or 'Chinese medicinals " , I try to emphasize plant medicines >> in my practice, and find it very effective. > > I used to think the antlers were shed, but I now believe they are cut > from " farmed animals " . It is also my understanding that they are NOT > sedated in china, nor is the bleeding controlled. I also do not use > animal products in my practice that involve cruelty or maiming. I do > however use insects and worms and also animals that are farmed for food > yielding medicinal byproducts, such as niu huang and gui ban. To me, > humane practice is paramount, but many cultures allow the slaughter of > animals when done humanely (kosher rituals in judaism, tibetan > buddhism, some native american, for examples). However, these > medicinals are my last resort. I believe even strict buddhist > practitioners of ahimsa make a medicinal exemption in emergencies. I > have found I can avoid animals more than 99% of the time. > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2001 Report Share Posted April 20, 2001 Dear members, I have been given 2 pieces of deer antler (Lu Rong) and subsequently now have 2 questions that I would appreciate some feedback on: 1) Ethics I believe that when the young antlers are cut from the deer, this is a " relatively painless " though messy procedure ( they are made to run before the antlers are cut off so that blood circulation to the antlers is maximized). Does anybody have any specific information or experience regarding the removal of deer antlers, especially if this is a relatively painless experience for the deer, as is claimed? This, of course, begs the question of whether we should be using animal products such as this, in the first place. 2) Preparation Every textbook I have looked at gives a different version of how to prepare Lu Rong. Does anybody have any experience in preparing Lu Rong? If so, how did you prepare it exactly? Was it similar to commercially bought Lu Rong? Yours in anticipation, Derek High Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2001 Report Share Posted April 21, 2001 Hi Everyone. I know this is going to upset several of you, But growing up on a farm in NT. Ga. and removing both hooves and horn from 100s of animals I can tell you that it's nearly pain free if done correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2001 Report Share Posted April 21, 2001 Hi All - Since we're on the topic of Lu Rong. I live in an area where there are lots of wild deer and road kill is not uncommon. Does anyone know how to harvest antler from a freshly killed deer? Is it only good when the antlers are velvet, or is that best? If the deer is mature with bony antler is it still useful? If so, would the bony antler gradually dissolve in an alcohol extract, or would it have to be ground? Diane , @i... wrote: > , " Derek High " <derekh@i...> wrote: > > Dear members, > > > > I have been given 2 pieces of deer antler (Lu Rong) and subsequently now have 2 questions that I would appreciate some feedback on: > > > > 1) Ethics > > > > I believe that when the young antlers are cut from the deer, this is a " relatively painless " though messy procedure > > It is my understanding that this is an extremely cruel and painful > procedure. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2001 Report Share Posted April 21, 2001 , RDC1richard@a... wrote: > Hi Everyone. > > I know this is going to upset several of you, But growing up on a farm in NT. > Ga. and removing both hooves and horn from 100s of animals I can tell you > that it's nearly pain free if done correctly. Richard I do not dispute that this process CAN be done humanely, but the question is whether it IS done humanely in China. the evidence I have seen suggests that it is done without regard for the animal's suffering. Animal slaughter in the US used to be very cruel, but is now largely done humanely. It is just another area that the Chinese must be pressured to meet world ethical standards. Until I am convinced I will not use the product, just as I will not use chinese products that are documented to involve slave labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2001 Report Share Posted April 23, 2001 In a message dated 4/21/01 12:59:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: Animal slaughter in the US used to be very cruel, but is now largely done humanely. - I have to dispute this statement most strongly. Standards at slaughterhouses are generally not enforced in the States, and animal cruelty is rampant. If you would like to discuss this further, please email me privately as I do not want to post off-topic on the list. Hillary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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