Fluid extracts vs. Tictures, Fresh vs Dry plants, Critical Doses.

[Guest guest]

Hi

Needless to say, our long dialogs back in OCOM's herbal dispensary,

sent me on a journey of exploration in this subject area. Thanx for

that spark you ignited in me.

After all the stimulating dialogs on various subjects being discussed

on this forum, I thought it was worth adding some input of my own.

It is good to see such intelligent discussions between members of our

proffession, sharing, questioning, revealing and educating, in this wonderful

forum. The Lu Rong discussions were particularly interesting as well

as your feedback and analysis of the liquid extracts. Your comparison

of the low dose of alcohol in a tsp., which functions as an effective

carrier and preservative, compared to a full wine glass of a tonic, was

a good point. Some have issues w/ the heating properties of alcohol,

esp. when the extracts are prepared w/ it. However, I have seen Long

Dan Xie Gan Tang and other cooling formulas work wonders for clearing heat

conditions, despite their alcohol content.

Having used & compared various brands of liquid extracts extensively,

I thought my feedback would interest some. (in honoring the rules,

I will refrain from brand endorsements). I have seen substantial

therapeutic effects in my own practice as well as that of many colleagues

using both tinctures and Liquid concentrtes. While I agree that the

concentrated fluid extracts, when taken at substantial doses of (1 tsp,

2-3 x per day, in warm H2O), contain strong biochemical principles

which I feel hit harder than dilute tinctures, I have found that they also

have the light, energetic effects of tinctures when dosed sublingually

at drop dosing amounts of about 15-30 drops 3-6 x / day.

Why / how is this the case? I think that it is somewhat akin to

the differences between Chinese & Japanese styles of acupuncture.

The Chinese techniques are typically strong and "physical", while the Japanese

styles are much more soft, delicate and energetic. While both systems

use opposite approaches in some regards, they both have very good clinical

results depending on the patient's response or the practitioner's

skill.

However, when comparing fluid extracts to Tinctures, it's important

to note that the Chinese herbs we use, and fluid extract concentrates in

general, are made using "dried and cured" herbs, w/ few exceptions.

In western botanical traditions, tinctures made from "FRESH" plants, w/

few exceptions, are considered to be the best due to their high amount

of vital force / prana / qi. So when looking at tinctures, it is

always a good idea to look for FRESH plant extracts preferably in a 1:1

or 1:2 ratio. These are stronger than 1:5 dilutions, though slightly

more expenssive. Having made and used both fresh & dry plant

western tinctures and chinese liquid concentrates for a long time now,

I have noticed how effective they both are and also how well they can combine,

ie. Yin Qiao Tang or Gan Mao Ling w/ Echinacea, Goldenseal, Oregon Grape,

Osha root etc..

It's interesting to note the "critical dose" factors. In

this country, we typically use tinctures in drop dose amounts, however,

the europeans use them in tsp. amounts, thus obtaing maximum energetic

and pharmacological results. While I have seen substantial results

from practitioners using drop dosing of these extracts, I have seen even

stronger results using substantial tsp. dosing,. For example, one

of my colleagues reported a 5mm brain tumor reduction, as measured by MRI

& CT scan, using a modification of Ophiopogon & Asarum formula,

after 3 months of regular use at 3 tsp. / day. I have seen

liquid Curing Formula, Gan Mao Ling & HuoXiang Zheng Qi Tang work w/in

minutes of a tsp. dose in hot water. I have also found that tonics

can be dosed lower ie. drop doses, while acute formulas should be dosed

higher.

I have also found that the traditionally prepared, water based, low

alcohol extracts, work better for me than the high alcohol and or

glycerine based extracts. While the companies Todd mentioned produce

great products and offer excellent services from wonderful individuals,

there are noticeable differences in terms of concentration ratios, alcohol

content, prices, customizability and item selection.

I recomend doing some research and especially cross comparisons (of

the same item), between liquids to liquids & liquids to powders &

dissolved pills, to determine the freshness, flavor(s), aroma, potency

of "taste", alcohol content and "response effect". You will

find that a surprising amount of information and difference can be determined

using the simple, ancient taste test. Yet it will empower

& refine the herbalists' skills, and help him / her to distinguish

"True potency" above & beyond statistical numbers and graph

representations, purported by analytical machines, used by many modern

companies..

As an example, I compared a 10:1 carrier free extract of cinnamon bark

and a 50:1 carrier free extract of ShaRen, to their liquid concentrate

counterparts. While the HPLC & statistical "potency" measurements

looked good for the powders, a simple taste test revealed that they were

"dead". 1 drop of liquid extract had infinte more aroma, spicy

taste, flavor and effect, than their counterpart powders, even when I consumed

a full teaspoon of the powders, (equivalent to 10 & 50 grams of raw

herb, respectively.) I now know, to to be cautious of big concentration

numbers and analytical figures, that don't match up to empirical wisdom.

If anyone has explored the terrain of "FRESH Plant" extracting w/ Chinese

herbs, I would be particularly interested in learning more about

this little known topic. Should anyone wish to contact me to discuss

Liquid extracts or clinical uses further, I can be reached at:

Dave Ehrlichman, LAc., MAcOM, LMT,

Golden Lotus Herbs & Healing Arts,

Tualatin, OR 97062

ph: 503-612-9548

fx: 503-217-6046

dehrlichman

 

 

 

wrote:

 

[Guest guest]

, Dave Ehrlichman <davee@n...> wrote:

 

 

>

> Having used & compared various brands of liquid extracts extensively, I

thought my feedback would interest some. (in honoring the rules, I will refrain

from brand endorsements).

 

I have rethought the issue of those with vested interests mentioning

their brands. Standard practice just requires that as long as the

vested interest is mentioned up front, it is OK to mention the brand

name after that. Some of our vested interests on this list are quite

knowledgeable, especially about their own products. And I know all of

these people to be quite ethical. So as long as we follow this rule

and no one objects, lets go for it.

 

[Guest guest]

, I have found that they also have the light, energetic effects

>>>What does this mean

Alon

[Guest guest]

, <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> , I have found that they also have the light, energetic effects

> >>>What does this mean

> Alon

 

I was wondering that,too.