Guest guest Posted May 7, 2001 Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Thanks to Hakin Kassem and for the enlightening responses. >This is an extreamly good question and I feel that the answer may partly >lie >in a system of medicine closely related to both TCM and Ayurveda and that >is >Unani medicine. This form of medicine utilizes all forms (VEGI ANIMAL >MINERAL) in its pharmacopea but the most popular remedies are longevity >recipies that can be used safely by both practitioners (Hakims) and the >general public. Many of the formula's contain kideny tonics, nutrative >ingredients and digestive stimulants all in one. Some are atributed to the >great figures of this system eg Galen and have survived up to the present. >This is one that I use daily in my practice mainly for liver and digestive >disharmony. I wrote this for a talk to some Pakistani medical doctor's so i >have cut traditional definitions down to the bare minimum but as many of >you >will notice many of the ingredients are used in Tcm. Sorry the foot notes >did not come through. >Hakim. Mohammad Kassem To Hakim Kassem: How do you intergrate TCM and Unani in to you practice and clinical thinking? I was wondering as to how difficult or easy it is for you to use both, and how well the two systems compliement on another? I ask this, because the CHA list has discussed eclecstism in in today's time; usually the elcectism discussion has center around using TCM with relatively more contemporary approaches like homeopathy, kinesiology, Western Herbs/Herbalism, modern biomedical science(example: 5 Phase correlations with neuro-endocrinology) and so on. In your background seems uniques in that you use Unani and Tcm, which both have a relatively long history and rich tradition. >I think Ayurveda and Tibetan AND all have a history of >use of tonics without manifesting gross pathology. The question is >whether any of this information has been reliably translated from any >of these cultures. However there is also a tradition of learned >physicians railing against the damage quacks and the general public do >with improper use of these tonics. At least part of what we have here >is a conservative (confucian? neoconfucian?) opinion that is oriented >towards using medicine to achieve full healthspan with minimal >morbididty versus a taoist immortalist quest for vigorous and greatly >extended lives. We have seen plenty of good translation along these >more conservative lines. I don't think the taoist longevity lore has >been as faithfully rendered. This would certainly be an interesting >study. I assume the tranlations correspond to the lessons we learned in herb classes. Lessons such as proper dosing, when to use and not to use, and contraindications. By the way, which translations do you refer to? I see self-prescribing by lay/general public persons my practice and the store I work at. Some of whom engaged in longevity practices(tonics, herbs, vitamins/minerals, nutriceuticals), without any gross illness. So, I am particualy interest in what the translations have to say. Thanks, Malino _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2001 Report Share Posted May 17, 2001 " Malino Khun " <QiMed Mon, 07 May 2001 14:55:33 Unani, and Longevity Thanks to Hakin Kassem and for the enlightening responses. >This is an extreamly good question and I feel that the answer may partly >lie >in a system of medicine closely related to both TCM and Ayurveda and that >is >Unani medicine. This form of medicine utilizes all forms (VEGI ANIMAL >MINERAL) in its pharmacopea but the most popular remedies are longevity >recipies that can be used safely by both practitioners (Hakims) and the >general public. Many of the formula's contain kideny tonics, nutrative >ingredients and digestive stimulants all in one. Some are atributed to the >great figures of this system eg Galen and have survived up to the present. >This is one that I use daily in my practice mainly for liver and digestive >disharmony. I wrote this for a talk to some Pakistani medical doctor's so i >have cut traditional definitions down to the bare minimum but as many of >you >will notice many of the ingredients are used in Tcm. Sorry the foot notes >did not come through. >Hakim. Mohammad Kassem To Hakim Kassem: How do you intergrate TCM and Unani in to you practice and clinical thinking? I was wondering as to how difficult or easy it is for you to use both, and how well the two systems compliement on another? I ask this, because the CHA list has discussed eclecstism in in today's time; usually the elcectism discussion has center around using TCM with relatively more contemporary approaches like homeopathy, kinesiology, Western Herbs/Herbalism, modern biomedical science(example: 5 Phase correlations with neuro-endocrinology) and so on. In your background seems uniques in that you use Unani and Tcm, which both have a relatively long history and rich tradition. The two systems compliment each other very well I feel becouse they have similar views on the nature of human being in health, decline in health and dis ease. There has also been some direct contact between the two systems in ancient times and more recently as I have had the chance to lecture to students of unani medicine on chinese medicine in karachi. In terms of pulse diagnosis there are many pulses that have exactly the same meaning (although diffences in terminology) in TCM , UIM and Ayurveda. I also feel that when dealing with older clients there is a resonance with the terminlogy of Unani medicine for example the temperements eg melancholic, phlegmatic ect. Has any body read " culpepers medicine by Tobyne " although i don't agree with everything he says it interesting to see a western system which is at its base unani (Greek). I find chinese medicine is well recieved by the older folk as well becouse of its terminology. I use western herbs, chinese herbs, Unani formulas interchangably in the clinic useing rational of all the systems including eclectic, modern phytotherapy becouse it suits the way I practice and pure expeadiancy becouse I have lived in Malaysia (49% Chinese population), India, Pakistan, America , Spain, england and now Scotland. I think in this day and age it good to understand what other people are doing and what their approach is to healing even if only the basics. Hakim M K Karim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2001 Report Share Posted May 17, 2001 A great Syrian physician, Rashid Al-Din, many centuries ago wrote a text called "A Survey of the Sciences of Cathay" that included pulse charts with both Chinese and Arabic characters, and an overview of Chinese medicine. There is definitely an interchange of pulse lore between the two cultures. I have an English translation of Ibn Sina's Canon of Medicine (one volume), with a large section on the pulse. Quite interesting. Maimonides (Ibn Musa) was also part of the Tibb-i Unani tradition, and his works have been extensively translated, including his pulse work and materia medica. On Thursday, May 17, 2001, at 03:12 AM, Hakim.Mohammad Kassem Karim wrote: > The two systems compliment each other very well I feel becouse they have similar views on the nature of human being in health, decline in health and dis ease. There has also been some direct contact between the two systems in ancient times and more recently as I have had the chance to lecture to students of unani medicine on chinese medicine in karachi. In terms of pulse diagnosis there are many pulses that have exactly the same meaning (although diffences in terminology) in TCM , UIM and Ayurveda. I also feel that when dealing with older clients there is a resonance with the terminlogy of Unani medicine for example the temperements eg melancholic, phlegmatic ect. Has any body read "culpepers medicine by Tobyne" although i don't agree with everything he says it interesting to see a western system which is at its base unani (Greek). I find chinese medicine is well recieved by the older fo! lk as well becouse of its terminology. I use western herbs, chinese herbs, Unani formulas interchangably in the clinic useing rational of all the systems including eclectic, modern phytotherapy becouse it suits the way I practice and pure expeadiancy becouse I have lived in Malaysia (49% Chinese population), India, Pakistan, America , Spain, england and now Scotland. I think in this day and age it good to understand what other people are doing and what their approach is to healing even if only the basics. > Hakim M K Karim > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2001 Report Share Posted May 21, 2001 Yes. I have a copy of those charts pulse charts given to me in pakistan. I have read most of the translated work of moses Maimonides of Cordoba spain. He lived during the Hieght of Islamic rule in Spain and was personal physician to Calif Abdar Rahman the third. I used to pass a statue of him on my to work every day when i lived in Granada. There are many of his works in Hebrew, Arabic, latin and english at the welcome librery in London. Last night I had dinner with pharmacist friend from Spain who is an expert on medieval pharmacy and he told me that moses used to recieve consultations by letter from some of the other Califs and was spot on many times. Sadly he had to flee the persicution from King ferdinand and reina isabella when Islamic rule fell in Anadalucia. " " <zrosenbe Thu, 17 May 2001 07:47:48 -0700 Re: Unani, and Longevity A great Syrian physician, Rashid Al-Din, many centuries ago wrote a text called " A Survey of the Sciences of Cathay " that included pulse charts with both Chinese and Arabic characters, and an overview of Chinese medicine. There is definitely an interchange of pulse lore between the two cultures. I have an English translation of Ibn Sina's Canon of Medicine (one volume), with a large section on the pulse. Quite interesting. Maimonides (Ibn Musa) was also part of the Tibb-i Unani tradition, and his works have been extensively translated, including his pulse work and materia medica. On Thursday, May 17, 2001, at 03:12 AM, Hakim.Mohammad Kassem Karim wrote: The two systems compliment each other very well I feel becouse they have similar views on the nature of human being in health, decline in health and dis ease. There has also been some direct contact between the two systems in ancient times and more recently as I have had the chance to lecture to students of unani medicine on chinese medicine in karachi. In terms of pulse diagnosis there are many pulses that have exactly the same meaning (although diffences in terminology) in TCM , UIM and Ayurveda. I also feel that when dealing with older clients there is a resonance with the terminlogy of Unani medicine for example the temperements eg melancholic, phlegmatic ect. Has any body read " culpepers medicine by Tobyne " although i don't agree with everything he says it interesting to see a western system which is at its base unani (Greek). I find chinese medicine is well recieved by the older fo! lk as well becouse of its terminology. I use western herbs, chinese herbs, Unani formulas interchangably in the clinic useing rational of all the systems including eclectic, modern phytotherapy becouse it suits the way I practice and pure expeadiancy becouse I have lived in Malaysia (49% Chinese population), India, Pakistan, America , Spain, england and now Scotland. I think in this day and age it good to understand what other people are doing and what their approach is to healing even if only the basics. Hakim M K Karim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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