Guest guest Posted May 14, 2001 Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 What is " successful " ? I have treated MS patients who had balance problems, tremors, numb feet, poor memory, fatigue, bowell incontinence w/certain foods....kidney stones...hypertension I am not sure if I was successful or not? In one specifinc case these symptoms were alleviated almost entirely with acupuncture and herbs... The Start Group has great info for patients and practitioners alike. I treated the patient mentioned above with essence tonics Zuo Gui Yin I believe. Although blood stasis was present in my patinet and diagnosed as such by another acupuncturist there was not enough essence and qi to move.. Acupuncture...Alot of UB 40 to Ki 1 with electro...I aslo did Ren 1/Du 1 for 2 months every week. Also electro from Du4 up the channel to 2 other points. I almost always treated him front and back....Good Luck...Kelly _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2001 Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 , " Kelly Welch " <kdwelch25@h...> wrote: > What is " successful " ? good question. I guess it would range from symptom relief to driving the disease into remission. However if the type of MS is remittent, it is not possible to be sure the TCM did the trick or if it remitted spontaneously. If it is progressive and severe symptoms are reversed even partially, I would call that success. > > I am not sure if I was successful or not? In one specifinc case these > symptoms were alleviated almost entirely with acupuncture and herbs... what symptoms did the pt. have and were they able to be controlled indefinitely. was it progressive or remittent? > > The Start Group has great info for patients and practitioners alike. yes, I worked at the ITM MS clinic for a while in the early 90's. the actual results were not that impressive, but most patients took low dose pills and had poor compliance >Although blood stasis was present in my patient and diagnosed as such by another acupuncturist there was not enough essence and qi to move.. Now you bring up an interesting point here. How do you make that determination? You know the main treatment principle for geriatric, autoimmune and most chronic diseases in modern china centers around moving blood stasis. If there are signs of blood stasis, I was taught to treat it. I'm curious how vacuous a patient should be before one ignores the blood stasis branch completely and just focuses on the vacuity. Some schools of thought would say there is never such a time, that all presenting pattens must be treated for longterm success. Yan de xin would argue that blood stasis is actually the root and Heiner Fruehauf often used the formula da huang zhe chong wan, a very strong blood mover, for severe vacuity taxation as indicated in the Jin Gui Yao Lue. Bensky even indicates it for chronic hepatitis, cancer and cirrhosis. Fruehauf used it in late stage AIDS in the early 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2001 Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 I have treated MS >>>MS can go into remission and thus very difficult to follow Alon - Monday, May 14, 2001 12:41 PM Re: Wei Syndromes , "Kelly Welch" <kdwelch25@h...> wrote:> What is "successful"? good question. I guess it would range from symptom relief to driving the disease into remission. However if the type of MS is remittent, it is not possible to be sure the TCM did the trick or if it remitted spontaneously. If it is progressive and severe symptoms are reversed even partially, I would call that success.> > I am not sure if I was successful or not? In one specifinc case these > symptoms were alleviated almost entirely with acupuncture and herbs...what symptoms did the pt. have and were they able to be controlled indefinitely. was it progressive or remittent?> > The Start Group has great info for patients and practitioners alike.yes, I worked at the ITM MS clinic for a while in the early 90's. the actual results were not that impressive, but most patients took low dose pills and had poor compliance>Although blood stasis was present in my patient and diagnosed as such by another acupuncturist there was not enough essence and qi to move..Now you bring up an interesting point here. How do you make that determination? You know the main treatment principle for geriatric, autoimmune and most chronic diseases in modern china centers around moving blood stasis. If there are signs of blood stasis, I was taught to treat it. I'm curious how vacuous a patient should be before one ignores the blood stasis branch completely and just focuses on the vacuity. Some schools of thought would say there is never such a time, that all presenting pattens must be treated for longterm success. Yan de xin would argue that blood stasis is actually the root and Heiner Fruehauf often used the formula da huang zhe chong wan, a very strong blood mover, for severe vacuity taxation as indicated in the Jin Gui Yao Lue. Bensky even indicates it for chronic hepatitis, cancer and cirrhosis. Fruehauf used it in late stage AIDS in the early 90's.Todd Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2001 Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 Remember dispelling stasis to generate new Alon - Monday, May 14, 2001 12:41 PM Re: Wei Syndromes , "Kelly Welch" <kdwelch25@h...> wrote:> What is "successful"? good question. I guess it would range from symptom relief to driving the disease into remission. However if the type of MS is remittent, it is not possible to be sure the TCM did the trick or if it remitted spontaneously. If it is progressive and severe symptoms are reversed even partially, I would call that success.> > I am not sure if I was successful or not? In one specifinc case these > symptoms were alleviated almost entirely with acupuncture and herbs...what symptoms did the pt. have and were they able to be controlled indefinitely. was it progressive or remittent?> > The Start Group has great info for patients and practitioners alike.yes, I worked at the ITM MS clinic for a while in the early 90's. the actual results were not that impressive, but most patients took low dose pills and had poor compliance>Although blood stasis was present in my patient and diagnosed as such by another acupuncturist there was not enough essence and qi to move..Now you bring up an interesting point here. How do you make that determination? You know the main treatment principle for geriatric, autoimmune and most chronic diseases in modern china centers around moving blood stasis. If there are signs of blood stasis, I was taught to treat it. I'm curious how vacuous a patient should be before one ignores the blood stasis branch completely and just focuses on the vacuity. Some schools of thought would say there is never such a time, that all presenting pattens must be treated for longterm success. Yan de xin would argue that blood stasis is actually the root and Heiner Fruehauf often used the formula da huang zhe chong wan, a very strong blood mover, for severe vacuity taxation as indicated in the Jin Gui Yao Lue. Bensky even indicates it for chronic hepatitis, cancer and cirrhosis. Fruehauf used it in late stage AIDS in the early 90's.Todd Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 ignores the blood stasis branch completely and just focuses on the vacuity. Some schools of thought would say there is never such a time, that all presenting pattens must be treated for longterm success. Yan de xin would argue that blood stasis is actually the root and Heiner Fruehauf often used the formula da huang zhe chong wan, a very strong blood mover, for severe vacuity taxation as indicated in the Jin Gui Yao Lue. Bensky even indicates it for chronic hepatitis, cancer and cirrhosis. Fruehauf used it in late stage AIDS in the early 90's. Was Fruehauf using this formula in the traditional pill form? Has any others used this rx. with success? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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