side effects of herbs?

[Guest guest]

I treated a young woman with Liver yang rising (hypertension and

recurrent headaches as main complaints) with Tian Ma Gou Teng formula.

We had good results with the headaches and she is also training for

the marathon and experienced quicker recovery time from work outs.

However, when she got her period a few weeks after starting the herbs,

she experienced a 5 lb. gain in weight reportedly due to water

retention and uncomfortable swelling in her hands and feet which she

never before experienced with her period. She stopped the herbs since

this was the only thing she said she'd done differently in the past

month and the swelling dissapeared. I have since switched her to dan

zhi xiao yao wan which I think is also appropriate (one of her signs

is a bright red flushing of her neck when she gets excited/nervous)

and she has had no exacerbation in headaches due to the chai hu which

I was concerned about.

 

Side effect, allergic reaction, or coincidence?

 

Secondly, I treated a woman with cc of lower right quadrant pain with

palpaple rigidity and no western diagnostic explanation with gui zhi

fu ling wan. I dx her with blood stasis and spleen qi and blood

deficiency. Her cc responded very well to acu and direct moxa, but she

reported feeling wiped out, almost sedated, from the herbs, having to

go to bed at 8:30 or 9pm which was highly unlike her. I switched her

to shen ling bai zhu after which she said her energy was good, no

sleepiness.

 

Did she just need to be tonified entirely instead of moved? Any

comments?

 

Any clinical experience or speculations welcome.

[Guest guest]

The problem here is whether you were able to discern the entire pattern,

or if in this e-mail you are not listing all the concurrent symptoms and

patterns. It may well be that you need to modify the tian ma gou teng

yin to deal with the dampness retention before the period, which may be

due to liver qi depression, or kidney and/or spleen qi vacuity

dampness. Without the tongue and pulse diagnosis, one can only guess

here. Also, I cannot conclude just because the patient has hypertension

and headaches that the pattern is liver yang rising without other

information. Both of these conditions can be caused by multiple

patterns, even when they appear together. The fact that dan zhi shao

yao wan was helpful indicates that the pattern may be more related to

liver qi depression, and liver spleen disharmony. Therefore, this

prescription may be more appropriate.

 

 

 

 

On Monday, May 14, 2001, at 02:28 PM, nicolehohmann

wrote:

 

> I treated a young woman with Liver yang rising (hypertension and

> recurrent headaches as main complaints) with Tian Ma Gou Teng formula.

> We had good results with the headaches and she is also training for

> the marathon and experienced quicker recovery time from work outs. 

> However, when she got her period a few weeks after starting the herbs,

> she experienced a 5 lb. gain in weight reportedly due to water

> retention and uncomfortable swelling in her hands and feet which she

> never before experienced with her period.  She stopped the herbs since

> this was the only thing she said she'd done differently in the past

> month and the swelling dissapeared. I have since switched her to dan

> zhi xiao yao wan which I think is also appropriate (one of her signs

> is a bright red flushing of her neck when she gets excited/nervous)

> and she has had no exacerbation in headaches due to the chai hu which

> I was concerned about. 

>

> Side effect, allergic reaction, or coincidence?

>

[Guest guest]

I to the " treat the pattern, not the disease " concept and

don't assume high bp or h/as = liver yang rising. At the time I

thought the preponderance of the s/s were leaning toward liver yang

rising than liver qi depression with sp/xue xu (although I thought

there to be an element of this). Her tongue is swollen with teethmarks

and her pulse is wiry. I guess she has more sp qi with damp tendency

than I gave emphasis to.

Thanks for your comments,

Nicole