Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Dear list members: I teach western pharmacology at the Midwest College of OM. For the past 2 years, I have been bringing more of a TCM perspective into the class. My focus has been in 2 areas. First, interactions between drugs and herbs, which I have based much of my presentations on IBIS software (thanks Todd)and articles written by John Chen and Subhuti Dharmananda. (I'm always open to suggestions of additioinal sources). Second, the influence of western drugs on the TCM pattern. I have found significantly less information in this area. As a matter of fact, the discussions of this group have provided more " food for thought " than any other source I have found. Currently, I have been preparing my lessons on the western treatment of asthma. Corticosteroids are of course a commonly used therapy. These are probably the most effective anti-inflammatory agents in the western physician's arsenal, so they are frequently used. As we know the side effects can be horrific (e.g. Cushing's, diabetes, osteoporosis, insomnia, immunosuppression, edema, increased appetite, etc...). I have not seen enough of these types of patients to get a clear handle on the tendencies of tongues and pulses. Have any of you seen particular patterns emerge consistently or at least more frequently in patients taking corticosteroids? What do you think the underlying TCM pathomechanisms are? I would be interested in your thoughts on these and any other TCM tendencies you have observed with western drug therapy. Hopefully, this is " on subject " for the list, but if not, I would still appreciate private responses. Thanks, Michael Buyze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2001 Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 , mbuyze@h... wrote: > Dear list members: > > Second, the influence of western drugs on the TCM pattern. I have > found significantly less information in this area. As a matter of > fact, the discussions of this group have provided more " food for > thought " than any other source I have found. > Hi Mike Check out flaws " something old, something new " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2001 Report Share Posted May 22, 2001 Dear michael Nothing happens by chance! I have been contemplating how I am going to teach the western pharmacology part of the acupuncture diploma course I am studying on. I would be really interested in how you teach this and to what level. I have been given some useful resources on the effects of western drugs in TCM terms, originally from a Dr. Stephen Gascoigne who publishes a book called " The clinical Medicine Guide A holistic Perspective " ISBN 0-9522189-3-3. He says corticosteriods are hot in nature and affect the lung, spleen and kidney. As far as corticosteriod inhalers for asthma, the evidence is that there is a maximal dose needed to be taken before there is evidence of systemic absorption via the blood stream of the steriod, potentially causing the effects you mentioned, particularly growth suppression in children.The maximal dose recommended is 1500 micrograms per day-this amount, if taken daily can lead to adrenal suppression. The main problem I see with inhaled corticosteroids is oral thrush, as most is absorbed in the oropharynx-very little reaches the lungs. Some devices give better lung delivery, as does using a spacer device. mbuyze <mbuyze Monday, May 21, 2001 1:30 AM TCM Properties of Western Drugs >Dear list members: > >I teach western pharmacology at the Midwest College of OM. For the >past 2 years, I have been bringing more of a TCM perspective into the >class. My focus has been in 2 areas. > >First, interactions between drugs and herbs, which I have based much >of my presentations on IBIS software (thanks Todd)and articles >written by John Chen and Subhuti Dharmananda. (I'm always open to >suggestions of additioinal sources). > >Second, the influence of western drugs on the TCM pattern. I have >found significantly less information in this area. As a matter of >fact, the discussions of this group have provided more " food for >thought " than any other source I have found. > >Currently, I have been preparing my lessons on the western treatment >of asthma. Corticosteroids are of course a commonly used therapy. >These are probably the most effective anti-inflammatory agents in the >western physician's arsenal, so they are frequently used. As we know >the side effects can be horrific (e.g. Cushing's, diabetes, >osteoporosis, insomnia, immunosuppression, edema, increased appetite, >etc...). > >I have not seen enough of these types of patients to get a clear >handle on the tendencies of tongues and pulses. Have any of you seen >particular patterns emerge consistently or at least more frequently >in patients taking corticosteroids? What do you think the underlying >TCM pathomechanisms are? > >I would be interested in your thoughts on these and any other TCM >tendencies you have observed with western drug therapy. Hopefully, >this is " on subject " for the list, but if not, I would still >appreciate private responses. > >Thanks, > >Michael Buyze > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 , @i... wrote: > , mbuyze@h... wrote: > > Dear list members: > > > > > Second, the influence of western drugs on the TCM pattern. I have > > found significantly less information in this area. As a matter of > > fact, the discussions of this group have provided more " food for > > thought " than any other source I have found. > > > > Hi Mike > > Check out flaws " something old, something new " > : I couldn't find the book on Blue Poppy, so I emailed Bob directly. He told me the book has been out of print for 15 years and suggested I search among used book sources. Have you had any luck with finding out of print books on the net? (Or other suggestions?) Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 , " Carolyn Eddleston " <coast@c...> wrote: > Dear michael > Nothing happens by chance! I have been contemplating how I am going to teach > the western pharmacology part of the acupuncture diploma course I am > studying on. I would be really interested in how you teach this and to what > level. I have been given some useful resources on the effects of western > drugs in TCM terms, originally from a Dr. Stephen Gascoigne who publishes a > book called " The clinical Medicine Guide A holistic Perspective " ISBN > 0-9522189-3-3. > Carolyn: Thanks for the response. Sounds like this book would be a helpful resource. I will see if I can get my hands on a copy. I will email you seperately (off list) to discuss details of the western phramacology class. Thanks, Michael Buyze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2001 Report Share Posted May 25, 2001 Check out flaws "something old, something new">>>>All these speculation take root from viewing the side-effect profile of drugs. If this was an expectable method to think of TCM functions then we have to change how we look at herbs. When looking at the PDR one finds lots of side-effects for all drugs. Most individuals however only have a few and are different for each individual depending on many factors. That suggests that individual reaction to a medicine has to be taken in to account when deciding an herb or drug TCM function, something we do not do. Also for example, Bob on his site has info on MAOI's giving many kind of dispersing and harmful qualities to these drugs. Howeve, specific MAO B inhibitors are capable of prolonging animal life and improving mental function. So are these surface dispersing or jing supporting. Looking at side-effects and theorizing function is in my opinion a poor method Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2001 Report Share Posted May 26, 2001 Michael (and other members) I dont know if you are aware of them but you have made no mention of several articles in the Journal of on the TCM properties on drugs such as Prednisolone, the contraceptive pill (both by Bob Flaws) and HRT by Jane Lyttleton). Have not got the copies at hand but their reference numbers can be easily found in the index of articles on the JCM website. There may be others. Derek High mbuyze <mbuyze Friday, May 25, 2001 5:00 AM Re: TCM Properties of Western Drugs >, " Carolyn Eddleston " <coast@c...> >wrote: >> Dear michael >> Nothing happens by chance! I have been contemplating how I am going >to teach >> the western pharmacology part of the acupuncture diploma course I am >> studying on. I would be really interested in how you teach this and >to what >> level. I have been given some useful resources on the effects of >western >> drugs in TCM terms, originally from a Dr. Stephen Gascoigne who >publishes a >> book called " The clinical Medicine Guide A holistic Perspective " ISBN >> 0-9522189-3-3. >> >Carolyn: > >Thanks for the response. Sounds like this book would be a helpful >resource. I will see if I can get my hands on a copy. I will email >you seperately (off list) to discuss details of the western >phramacology class. > >Thanks, > >Michael Buyze > > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 , " Derek High " <derekh@i...> wrote: > Michael (and other members) > > I dont know if you are aware of them but you have made no mention of several > articles in the Journal of on the TCM properties on drugs > such as Prednisolone, the contraceptive pill (both by Bob Flaws) and HRT > by Jane Lyttleton). Have not got the copies at hand but their reference > numbers can be easily found in the index of articles on the JCM website. > There may be others. > > > Derek High Thanks Derek! There always seems to be more out there than I am aware of. That's why I asked. JCM is my next stop! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 I have written and lectured on this subject for at least ten years.. . . ..but I need to update the articles I wrote, they are out of date. I will try to put something on the CHA reference list in the next few months, based more on my recent lecture notes at PCOM. I should point out that Dr. Cheung, who used to teach at ACTCM, has translated a few good research reports on " Steroid Syndrome " and " Toxic Side-Effects of Radiotherapy and Chemotherapy Leukopenia " , from Harmonious Sunshine Cultural Center, P.O. Box 591524, San Francisco, Ca. 94159,-1524. They are hard to find, but well worth checking out. On Sunday, May 27, 2001, at 09:11 AM, mbuyze wrote: > , " Derek High " <derekh@i...> wrote: > > Michael (and other members) > > > > I dont know if you are aware of them but you have made no mention > of several > > articles in the Journal of on the TCM properties > on drugs > > such as Prednisolone, the contraceptive pill (both by Bob Flaws) > and HRT > > by Jane Lyttleton). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 Hi Z'ev, Thanks for mentioning C.S.Cheung's work. I was turned on to his work by Bob Damone, and have been impressed with his insights. and I have been chewing on some of his material for a little while now. Kip Roseman > [Original Message] > <zrosenbe > > 5/27/01 9:37:38 AM > Re: Re: TCM Properties of Western Drugs > > I have written and lectured on this subject for at least ten years.. . . > .but I need to update the articles I wrote, they are out of date. I > will try to put something on the CHA reference list in the next few > months, based more on my recent lecture notes at PCOM. > > I should point out that Dr. Cheung, who used to teach at ACTCM, has > translated a few good research reports on " Steroid Syndrome " and " Toxic > Side-Effects of Radiotherapy and Chemotherapy Leukopenia " , from > Harmonious Sunshine Cultural Center, P.O. Box 591524, San Francisco, Ca. > 94159,-1524. They are hard to find, but well worth checking out. > > > On Sunday, May 27, 2001, at 09:11 AM, mbuyze wrote: > > > , " Derek High " <derekh@i...> wrote: > > > Michael (and other members) > > > > > > I dont know if you are aware of them but you have made no mention > > of several > > > articles in the Journal of on the TCM properties > > on drugs > > > such as Prednisolone, the contraceptive pill (both by Bob Flaws) > > and HRT > > > by Jane Lyttleton). > --- Joseph Roseman --- kipr0823 --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2001 Report Share Posted June 2, 2001 Carolyn Eddleston wrote: > I have been given some useful resources on the effects of western > drugs in TCM terms, originally from a Dr. Stephen Gascoigne who publishes a > book called " The clinical Medicine Guide A holistic Perspective " ISBN > 0-9522189-3-3. All I can find at Amazon.com is Stephen Gascoigne's " Prescribed Drugs and the Alternative Practitioner " Is that the same thing? (ISBN 1853980226) -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2001 Report Share Posted June 4, 2001 It seems to be available from the local print firm in Ireland-jigme press, Glebe house, Ardfield, Clonakilty, Co. Cork, Ireland. We ordered books for the college directly from here. There is only a small section on western drugs, but the book gives a good working reference for practitioners not specifically trained in western medicine. I haven't heard of the book you mention. Carolyn Eddleston Al Stone <alstone Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:59 AM Re: TCM Properties of Western Drugs > > >Carolyn Eddleston wrote: > >> I have been given some useful resources on the effects of western >> drugs in TCM terms, originally from a Dr. Stephen Gascoigne who publishes a >> book called " The clinical Medicine Guide A holistic Perspective " ISBN >> 0-9522189-3-3. > >All I can find at Amazon.com is Stephen Gascoigne's " Prescribed Drugs >and the Alternative Practitioner " Is that the same thing? (ISBN 1853980226) > >-- >Al Stone L.Ac. ><AlStone >http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com > >Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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