Guest guest Posted May 27, 2001 Report Share Posted May 27, 2001 Can anyone guide me in using herbs to treat a child under two years (20 mo)? He has been having chronic ear aches for five months but the MD cannot diagnose any actual ear problem or infection. The pain typically lasts for several days up to a week then takes an intermission before resurfacing. Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy little " buddha baby " always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes feverish and irritable in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and irritated, his appetite (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his urine is very dark with a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small amount of blood in the ear - again, the MD could not find anything to diagnose. The mother could not discern any particular triggers for the condition - she was not aware of any dietary or environmental factors that made it better or worse. I'd like to recommend some herbs as the parents are very receptive - but am concerned about dosage and effects on such a young child - is it even an option? I haven't had any training in pediatric care, so I would also appreciate recommendations for good references on the subject, western as well as TCM. --Laurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Laurie, I have no real training in pediatrics but I did give my own kids herbal kampo powders mixed with rice dream in their bottles for a variety of minor conditions. I found that my kids were quite responsive to immune adjuvants in the prevention or late stage treatment of infectious conditions. The dosages I used were about an eighth to a quarter tsp with each bottle. Since the earaches are recurring I would look into possible food reactions, like milk...which they often grow out of later. Stephen T & L [tgperez] Sunday, May 27, 2001 1:22 PM Pediatric ear ache Can anyone guide me in using herbs to treat a child under two years (20 mo)? He has been having chronic ear aches for five months but the MD cannot diagnose any actual ear problem or infection. The pain typically lasts for several days up to a week then takes an intermission before resurfacing. Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy little " buddha baby " always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes feverish and irritable in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and irritated, his appetite (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his urine is very dark with a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small amount of blood in the ear - again, the MD could not find anything to diagnose. The mother could not discern any particular triggers for the condition - she was not aware of any dietary or environmental factors that made it better or worse. I'd like to recommend some herbs as the parents are very receptive - but am concerned about dosage and effects on such a young child - is it even an option? I haven't had any training in pediatric care, so I would also appreciate recommendations for good references on the subject, western as well as TCM. --Laurie Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 you might want to consider homeopathic treatment for this toddler as it's quite expedient in its results when correct remedy is given and toddlers and young kids are extremely compliant...there are usually NO side effeccts as well. Remedies to consider might be belladonna, pulsatilla, chamomilla...more information is really needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Hi Laurie... I have seen (as well as personally experienced) tremendous success using Cranial Sacral Therapy for Otitis Media. I too, think there may be an underlying food allergy, however it may also be related to a forceps delivery. Check the birth history. This can usually be resolved in about 2 CST treatments. I would also recommend homeopathy Yvonne --- T & L <tgperez wrote: > > Can anyone guide me in using herbs to treat a child > under two years (20 > mo)? He has been having chronic ear aches for five > months but the MD > cannot diagnose any actual ear problem or infection. > The pain typically > lasts for several days up to a week then takes an > intermission before > resurfacing. > > Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy > little " buddha baby " > always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes > feverish and irritable > in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and > irritated, his appetite > (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his > urine is very dark with > a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small > amount of blood in the > ear - again, the MD could not find anything to > diagnose. The mother > could not discern any particular triggers for the > condition - she was > not aware of any dietary or environmental factors > that made it better or > worse. > > I'd like to recommend some herbs as the parents are > very receptive - but > am concerned about dosage and effects on such a > young child - is it even > an option? > > I haven't had any training in pediatric care, so I > would also appreciate > recommendations for good references on the subject, > western as well as > TCM. > > --Laurie > > > Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Laurie, I see a lot of children in my practice and give Chinese herbal decoctions to all of them - with great results. So your 20 mo old patient can definitely take herbs. I suggest crude herbs. Reduce the dosage a little from adult dosages (mine vary from 70 to 120g/bag; one bag for 3 days). Decoct the medicinals in 3 cups or so for 45 minutes (down to about 1 1/2 cups). Then use a medicine spoon/eye dropper (readily available at all children's stores) and administer anywhere from 8 to 12 tsps per day (for a 20 months old), depending on the severity of the condition. Children usually have MUCH less problem taking decoctions than adults. Some kids even like them (even when they are bitter heat clearing prescriptions). I never use one batch for more than 3 days as the flavor tends to change (and the properties most likely with it). As for a good formula for your patient, start with Xiao Chai Hu Tang (Minor Bupleurum Decoction) and add such medicinals as Lian Qiao, Chang Pu, Chuan Xiong, Bai Zhi, Shen Qu, Shan Zha, and Ji Nei Jin. Of course, prescribe the herbs based on your pattern discrimination. However, I can almost guarantee you that the diet of the child and the spleen vacuity/dampness accumulation have a lot to do with the ear infections (that's why you add the food stagnation medicinals). Children are not simply small adults and their disease mechanisms are different from adults'. As a matter of fact, there just appeared an article in the current Acupuncture Today on this subject. This might be a good starting point. As for another source, see Bob Flaws' A Handbook of Chinese Pediatrics (Blue Poppy Press). In it you will find a most enlightening discussion of recurrent ear infections. Make sure that the child is on a clear bland diet, i.e., no wheat, sugar, or dairy. This in itself will make a huge difference and, without such a diet change, you may never get completely rid of the ear infections. I hope this helps, Simon Becker - T & L 5/28/2001 12:56:21 AM Pediatric ear ache Can anyone guide me in using herbs to treat a child under two years (20 mo)? He has been having chronic ear aches for five months but the MD cannot diagnose any actual ear problem or infection. The pain typically lasts for several days up to a week then takes an intermission before resurfacing. Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy little "buddha baby" always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes feverish and irritable in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and irritated, his appetite (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his urine is very dark with a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small amount of blood in the ear - again, the MD could not find anything to diagnose. The mother could not discern any particular triggers for the condition - she was not aware of any dietary or environmental factors that made it better or worse. I'd like to recommend some herbs as the parents are very receptive - but am concerned about dosage and effects on such a young child - is it even an option? I haven't had any training in pediatric care, so I would also appreciate recommendations for good references on the subject, western as well as TCM. --Laurie Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 , T & L <tgperez@e...> wrote: > > > Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy little " buddha baby " > always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes feverish and irritable > in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and irritated, his appetite > (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his urine is very dark with > a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small amount of blood in the > ear - except for the appetite change, it seems like a long dan xie gan tang pattern. My teachers used this for earache sometimes as it enters the gallbladder channel. However, like Simon, I would be concerned about the inherent spleen vacuity in the toddler. I agree the xiao chai hu tang with the additions Simon recommended might be a good place to start, but I might use long dan cao and zhi zi for irritability and rising fire if this stems from an internal dishamrony rather than an external invasion, as seems the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Doesn't Jake Fratkin have a pediatric formula for earache based on Huang Lian Shang Qing Wan? I've heard only good things from parents who have used his formula on their children. Jim Ramholz , @i... wrote: > , T & L <tgperez@e...> wrote: > > > > > > > Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy little " buddha baby " > > always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes feverish and irritable > > in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and irritated, his appetite > > (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his urine is very dark with > > a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small amount of blood in the > > ear - > > except for the appetite change, it seems like a long dan xie gan tang > pattern. My teachers used this for earache sometimes as it enters the > gallbladder channel. However, like Simon, I would be concerned about > the inherent spleen vacuity in the toddler. I agree the xiao chai hu > tang with the additions Simon recommended might be a good place to > start, but I might use long dan cao and zhi zi for irritability and > rising fire if this stems from an internal dishamrony rather than an > external invasion, as seems the case. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 Ibut I might use long dan cao and zhi zi for irritability and rising fire if this stems from an internal dishamrony rather than an external invasion, as seems the case. In my opinion, Long Dan Cao or even Zhi Zi are often too cold and therefore spleen damaging for small children. For the heat, a manifestation of Hua Re (transformative heat) which accompanies all types of 'transformations,' i.e., growing and development in children (all transformations are warm transformations!!!), I frequently use Zhi Mu (which clears the exuberance of kidney yang often at the root of this 'growing heat' very effectively). Other, less spleen damaging (in relation to Long Dan Cao) heat clearing meds I often use are Huang Qin and Lian Qiao. Another nice formula for irritability (especially if it goes along with the teething) is Suan Zao Ren Tang. An analysis of the ingredients will show why. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2001 Report Share Posted May 28, 2001 , " Simon Becker " <simonbecker@e...> wrote: > > In my opinion, Long Dan Cao or even Zhi Zi are often too cold and therefore > spleen damaging for small children. I think many of us have found experientially that long dan cao is not as hard on the spleen as some texts say. It is worth noting that western gentiana is a bitter digestive tonic. I think this (western) herb is indicated in cases of dampheat concurrent with spleen xu, but this western use suggests its safety, at least short term. gentiopicrin is the main constituent in both western and chinese species. they appear virtually identical. check out felter at http://chili.rt66.com/hrbmoore/FelterMM/Felter3.pdf for more on this. Plus my chinese teachers from PRC did indeed use this for otitis media, so it is not just my speculation. Zhi zi is categorized as a cool blood herb, but it is used for heat from constraint as in dan zhi xiao yao san. My teacher considered it quite mild in action. I also think in the context of xiao chai hu tang, with ban xia, gan cao and ren shen, the spleen may be sufficiently protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 Simon, I appreciate the discussion and suggestions. I was pleased to see long dan xie gan tang is a reasonable option - everything seemed to be leading me in that direction before I asked for feedback from the group. Like Simon, I was concerned about it being too cold - so I appreciate the suggestion of modified xiao chai hu to chew on. In either case, I'd hope the formula would only be needed for the short term. As for the long term, convincing the family to make some serious dietary changes is the most challenging task. Thanks to all who have responded so far. Laurie , @i... wrote: > , " Simon Becker " <simonbecker@e...> > wrote: > > > > In my opinion, Long Dan Cao or even Zhi Zi are often too cold and therefore spleen damaging for small children. > > I think many of us have found experientially that long dan cao is > not as hard on the spleen as some texts say. It is worth noting that western gentiana is a bitter digestive tonic. I think this (western) herb is indicated in cases of dampheat concurrent with spleen xu, but this western use suggests its safety, at least short term. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 , tgperez@e... wrote: > Simon, I appreciate the discussion and suggestions. I was > pleased to see long dan xie gan tang is a reasonable option - I still don't think simon agrees with me on this. to clarify, I would only use LDXGT for a day or two in the most acute phase, definitely not for chronic OM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 Laurie, Your option is right, but you add Zhibaidiwan, it will be good for him, Nhung Ta - <tgperez Tuesday, May 29, 2001 7:40 AM Re: Pediatric ear ache > Simon, I appreciate the discussion and suggestions. I was > pleased to see long dan xie gan tang is a reasonable option - > everything seemed to be leading me in that direction before I asked > for feedback from the group. Like Simon, I was concerned about it > being too cold - so I appreciate the suggestion of modified xiao chai > hu to chew on. In either case, I'd hope the formula would only be > needed for the short term. As for the long term, convincing the > family to make some serious dietary changes is the most challenging > task. > > Thanks to all who have responded so far. > > Laurie > > , @i... wrote: > > , " Simon Becker " <simonbecker@e...> > > wrote: > > > > > > In my opinion, Long Dan Cao or even Zhi Zi are often too cold and > therefore spleen damaging for small children. > > > > I think many of us have found experientially that long dan cao is > > not as hard on the spleen as some texts say. It is worth noting > that western gentiana is a bitter digestive tonic. I think this > (western) herb is indicated in cases of dampheat concurrent with > spleen xu, but this western use suggests its safety, at least short > term. . . . > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2001 Report Share Posted May 29, 2001 Huang lian shang qing wan also OK, but sometime, it does'n work in some case as weak stmach, but worth to try, if it doesn't work then give to him longdantacan shang and zhibadi wan shang ( 2 small pills in Zhibadiwan) Nhung Ta - <jramholz Monday, May 28, 2001 6:33 PM Re: Pediatric ear ache > Doesn't Jake Fratkin have a pediatric formula for earache based on > Huang Lian Shang Qing Wan? I've heard only good things from parents > who have used his formula on their children. > > Jim Ramholz > > > > , @i... wrote: > > , T & L <tgperez@e...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Aside from the ear aches, this is a very happy little " buddha > baby " > > > always smiling. During the occurrence he becomes feverish and > irritable > > > in the afternoons, his eyes are swollen and irritated, his > appetite > > > (normally very hearty) wanes completely, and his urine is very > dark with > > > a strong odor. Once or twice there was a small amount of blood > in the > > > ear - > > > > except for the appetite change, it seems like a long dan xie gan > tang > > pattern. My teachers used this for earache sometimes as it enters > the > > gallbladder channel. However, like Simon, I would be concerned > about > > the inherent spleen vacuity in the toddler. I agree the xiao chai > hu > > tang with the additions Simon recommended might be a good place to > > start, but I might use long dan cao and zhi zi for irritability and > > rising fire if this stems from an internal dishamrony rather than > an > > external invasion, as seems the case. > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2001 Report Share Posted May 30, 2001 I have full respect for Homeopathy for what it is, but are you saying there is no Chinese medical or herbal alternative to treating this particular case? I also thought that Homeopathy DOES have side effects if the wrong remedy is given, and unless one is a properly trained Homeopathic practitioner, giving out incorrect remedies is common. Kip Roseman > [Original Message] > <acuschiff > > 5/28/01 7:52:37 AM > Re: Pediatric ear ache > > you might want to consider homeopathic treatment for this toddler as it's > quite expedient in its results when correct remedy is given and toddlers and > young kids are extremely compliant...there are usually NO side effeccts as > well. Remedies to consider might be belladonna, pulsatilla, chamomilla...more > information is really needed. > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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