Pulses vs Tongue readings

[Guest guest]

Why wouldn't the pulses point to both weak kidneys and dampheat in

the large intestine?

 

Jim Ramholz

 

 

 

, @i... wrote:

If a patient has weak kidney pulses, but all symptoms

> point to dampheat in the large intestine, what are you going to

do? Give yin tonics to someone with foul-smelling explosive

diarrhea? If anyone has this level of skill,bravo. But if so, there

is no harm in justifying your diagnoses with all available tools

(labs, questioning). To do otherwise would be careless.

>

 

[Guest guest]

Will

 

So when are going to pass on some of the face diagnosis stuff from Dr

Shen........

 

Heiko

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/14/01 11:54:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, heiko writes:

 

 

So when are going to pass on some of the face diagnosis stuff from Dr

Shen........

 

 

Heiko:

 

Frankly, I don't feel qualified.

 

This is not from Dr. Shen...but...to risk the obvious, one should be able to assess the status of the Shen Qi and Jing instantly from the face with no other information....(not that one would do this, it is an exercise). This method is particularly useful for Taoist styles of practice predicated on preservation and cultivation of the three treasures, and is consistent with practices of a superior physician as mandated in the classics. Respectively, use the eyes, cheeks-flesh, and ears-bones.

It is surprising to me how many students and teachers steeped in 'TCM' vernacular don't use or understand this method of analysis. Yet, the material is super basic from introductory theory components of training programs. The thinking seems to be foreign and requires modest supervision prior to a skillful expression.

It can be amazing to get beyond remedial practices. This is why the conversations on blood sugar management and blood activation for aging are so important from a technical biomedical point of view.

 

So....does anyone have notions regarding pulses as a three treasures style of analysis? One aspect relates to the three dimensional nature of the pulse as discussed in the Nei Jing (three burners, and three depths).

 

.....it goes on to the tongue and abdomen, back shu-point analysis, and every other aspect of being.

Will

[Guest guest]

Will may be we can meet (with Rory as well) when you are in the bay area and talk about a study

Alon

 

-

WMorris116

Cc: PulseDiagnosis

Thursday, June 14, 2001 9:43 PM

Re: Re: Pulses vs Tongue readings

I have a Parkinson's patient with a slippery, tense, and full neuropsych position (just distal to the cun position in a notch in the thenar eminence -- this fits perfectly in a holographic model of the body) -- interesting. The interpretation of this is stagnation, phlegm, and heat affecting the brain as a curious organ. Might I arrive at a similar diagnosis through other methods? Possibly. These pulse findings are not to be used alone, they are used in the context of four pillars as always. However, I cannot count of the number of times pulse findings have lead me to inquiry which uncovers essential case management material. This is an unparalleled study in my 20 years of experience. And, pulse findings have given me cause to refer out for a standard-care workup saving my butt from potentially litigious situations on more than one occasion. Rory, I guess I qualify as a pulse zealot.... Why? Because it works. Leon Hammer often said "this work isn't for everyone". The tongue is simpler, easier, and.....it's not so damn fickle. Will Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

.. It is entirely possible to diagnose damp heat in the lower burner from the pulse.>>>>I never said otherwise

Alon

 

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Thursday, June 14, 2001 10:19 AM

Re: Re: Pulses vs Tongue readings

Alon, In the Li Shih-zhen system of pulses, the chi/foot pulse includes the contents of the lower burner, including the intestines, not just the kidney. There are different maps one can use with the pulse. It is entirely possible to diagnose damp heat in the lower burner from the pulse.And, of course, one should use other methods such as tongue, appearance, questioning and tests to confirm one's results. I haven't seen that one would use a pulse diagnosis to choose treatment that was contrary to other signs and symptoms.What I observed was that the physician was able to determine the parameters of the disease through the pulse, and then fill in the details afterwards( I'll respond to your post later. . . .too much going on right now).On Thursday, June 14, 2001, at 09:29 AM, <alonmarcus wrote:

.. with all his years of experience, I suspect there weremany cues besides the pulse that tipped him off, including theimpressions he received from the other doctors who were no doubtfamiliar with the diagnoses themselves. >>>>>Probably true If a patient has weak kidney pulses, but all symptomspoint to dampheat in the large intestine, what are you going to do? Give yin tonics to someone with foul-smelling explosive diarrhea? Ifanyone has this level of skill,bravo. But if so, there is no harm injustifying your diagnoses with all available tools (labs, questioning). To do otherwise would be careless.>>>>Everything has to be taken into account. But it is the signs that put the symptoms in perspective as for example explosive diarrhea can be do to many causesAlon