Guest guest Posted June 20, 2001 Report Share Posted June 20, 2001 Thanks to all for your replies. Previous to writing I had tried a number of things, including internal herbs, with some similarities to Nhung Ta's formula using extracts. I tried a springwind plaster, #7, and had her place a hot water bottle over it. No change to date. Castor oil packs were suggested but the patient has a psychological aversion to castor oil. To stimulate contractions her midwife had her drink castor oil, which did subsequently ramp up her contractions. It also gave her wicked diarrhea and dehydrated her, she began vomiting not long after too, and developed a fever. Her water had broken on a Friday at 4pm and she still had not delivered by 8am Sunday, so she was transported to the hospital. At the hospital she was found to have septocemia, and put on IV antibiotics. Needless to say she has been through the wringer. The hematoma is between the superficial fascia and rectus abdominus. Sean diane [diane]Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Hi Sean:Somewhat complicated - if you give her strong blood movers it could be depleting right after childbirth and affect the baby through the milk. I'm assuming that the congealed blood is deep, between the lower part of the the muscle and the deep fascia, but perhaps not, perhaps it's the superficial fascia close to the skin.Either way, it would be useful to work with it through poltices - most effective if the blood is superficial.Castor oil draws through the skin and is soothing. Charcoal has similar properties. Ground flax seed draws too and is cooling. Blood movers can be used topically as well, but I don't have personal experience with them. Not sure if some would be irritating to the skin if kept on for awhile. Check your texts on topical use of blood movers. Mang xiao is supposed to break up congealed blood. There are quite a few others.Babies are sometimes very sensitive to internal herbs. I took a blood tonic when my daughter was 3 months old and she broke out in a terrible rash even though I felt great from it. At 2 weeks I would thnk there would be more opportunity for a reaction from the baby. But it would still be worth a try giving one dose of a blood moving formula to see how it is tolerated. However - she would probably still be bleeding only 2 weeks after birth. You'd have to be careful increasing the flow too much. An external poltice with mild heat applied to it would probably help the absorption. Prepare the herbs in powdered form in little baggies and then ask her to mix them with castor oil, place them over the haematoma, place gauze or telfa over it and tape it down. A microwaveable hot pack could be placed over it. You could do the first one in your office. If your treatments run about an hour, that's a good amount of time to check for skin sensitivity from any blood movers you might choose. Then you could give her packages to take home and use for increasingly longer times. The warmth might help with the pain.Meanwhile, she should be sure she has lots of help so she can lie down through this painful time snuggling and bonding with her little one.Good luck, Diane, "Nashua Natural Medicine" <sean@n...> wrote:> I have a patient that is a 32 year old female who delivered a baby girl two> weeks ago. A complication of the birth was that she ruptured her rectus> abdominus and bled a 12 centimeter hematoma periumbilically, but mostly on> the R lower quadrant. I am not sure hematoma is the right word because it> is a 12 centimeter ball of congealed blood between the muscle and fascia.> It is an extremely painful condition, and her surgeon says there is nothing> to do but wait for it to be absorbed. She can not sit up well, and the only> thing that has moderated the pain is percocet. She has been succesful at> decreasing the dosage of percocet, but still relies on it and is worried> about developing an addiction. She also has had high lymphocyte counts in> her urine, but no nitrites, her MD has treated it as a UTI with one round of> antibiotics, but with no nitrites it seems like it is more likely that she> has interstial cystitis.? During her pregnancy she developed gestational> diabetes, which has resolved as expected. She is breastfeeding.> Her tongue is swollen, moist some light red spots toward the tip> pulses are generally deep, rapid tight> > I know she has a major spleen qi deficiency, but I am a bit confounded as> where to start here. The most acute would probably be the pain from the> hematoma, but the bladder discomfort is equally problematic.> > Suggestions would be much appreciated.> > Sean> ********************************************> Sean P. Doherty, M.Sc., M.S., L.Ac., D.N.B.A.O.> Nashua Natural Medicine> 76 Northeastern Blvd., Unit 36A> Nashua, NH 03062> ph(603) 579-0956> fax(603) 579-0957> Healthcare for the whole family...Naturally!> www.nashuanaturalmedicine.com> > > WMorris116@A... [WMorris116@A...]> Saturday, June 16, 2001 9:14 PM> > Re: Re: Subscription approval (Jion> Prosser's Introducti...> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2001 Report Share Posted June 21, 2001 Dear Nashua, I think, that it is, I just have different language, but I can not explain, you did a big mistake when you gave to her castor oil. Castor oil is yin character as similar to daihuang, the lady who borned baby should not and never give to her any thing has yin character, their blood will be poison, because the borne lady, they have different kind of blood than you are, every thing have to be warm or neutrals. My formula can not chance or similar event doze, that why I have to give to you doze on. Sometime, I put some yin character on it, but I put another yang one to take out the the yin character to nuterize the yin character. You've got to learn the character of the herbs before you give your patient the herbs. I 'm sure if you gave to her the exactly my formula and doze you can help her, as I told in the previous post the lady borne can not have yin herb character, period Regard Nhung Ta Nashua Natural Medicine wrote: Thanks to all for your replies.Previous to writing I had tried a number of things, including internal herbs, with some similarities to Nhung Ta's formula using extracts. I tried a springwind plaster, #7, and had her place a hot water bottle over it. No change to date. Castor oilpacks were suggested but the patient has a psychological aversion to castor oil. To stimulate contractions her midwifehad her drink castor oil, which did subsequently ramp up her contractions. It also gave her wicked diarrhea and dehydrated her, she began vomiting not long after too, and developed a fever. Her water had broken on a Friday at 4pm and she still had not delivered by 8am Sunday, so she was transported to the hospital. At the hospital she was found to have septocemia, and put on IV antibiotics. Needless to say she has been through the wringer. The hematoma is between the superficial fascia and rectus abdominus.Sean -----Original Message----- diane [diane] Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:22 AM Re: Hi Sean: Somewhat complicated - if you give her strong blood movers it could be depleting right after childbirth and affect the baby through the milk. I'm assuming that the congealed blood is deep, between the lower part of the the muscle and the deep fascia, but perhaps not, perhaps it's the superficial fascia close to the skin. Either way, it would be useful to work with it through poltices - most effective if the blood is superficial. Castor oil draws through the skin and is soothing. Charcoal has similar properties. Ground flax seed draws too and is cooling. Blood movers can be used topically as well, but I don't have personal experience with them. Not sure if some would be irritating to the skin if kept on for awhile. Check your texts on topical use of blood movers. Mang xiao is supposed to break up congealed blood. There are quite a few others. Babies are sometimes very sensitive to internal herbs. I took a blood tonic when my daughter was 3 months old and she broke out in a terrible rash even though I felt great from it. At 2 weeks I would thnk there would be more opportunity for a reaction from the baby. But it would still be worth a try giving one dose of a blood moving formula to see how it is tolerated. However - she would probably still be bleeding only 2 weeks after birth. You'd have to be careful increasing the flow too much. An external poltice with mild heat applied to it would probably help the absorption. Prepare the herbs in powdered form in little baggies and then ask her to mix them with castor oil, place them over the haematoma, place gauze or telfa over it and tape it down. A microwaveable hot pack could be placed over it. You could do the first one in your office. If your treatments run about an hour, that's a good amount of time to check for skin sensitivity from any blood movers you might choose. Then you could give her packages to take home and use for increasingly longer times. The warmth might help with the pain. Meanwhile, she should be sure she has lots of help so she can lie down through this painful time snuggling and bonding with her little one. Good luck, Diane , "Nashua Natural Medicine" <sean@n...> wrote: > I have a patient that is a 32 year old female who delivered a baby girl two > weeks ago. A complication of the birth was that she ruptured her rectus > abdominus and bled a 12 centimeter hematoma periumbilically, but mostly on > the R lower quadrant. I am not sure hematoma is the right word because it > is a 12 centimeter ball of congealed blood between the muscle and fascia. > It is an extremely painful condition, and her surgeon says there is nothing > to do but wait for it to be absorbed. She can not sit up well, and the only > thing that has moderated the pain is percocet. She has been succesful at > decreasing the dosage of percocet, but still relies on it and is worried > about developing an addiction. She also has had high lymphocyte counts in > her urine, but no nitrites, her MD has treated it as a UTI with one round of > antibiotics, but with no nitrites it seems like it is more likely that she > has interstial cystitis.? During her pregnancy she developed gestational > diabetes, which has resolved as expected. She is breastfeeding. > Her tongue is swollen, moist some light red spots toward the tip > pulses are generally deep, rapid tight > > I know she has a major spleen qi deficiency, but I am a bit confounded as > where to start here. The most acute would probably be the pain from the > hematoma, but the bladder discomfort is equally problematic. > > Suggestions would be much appreciated. > > Sean > ******************************************** > Sean P. Doherty, M.Sc., M.S., L.Ac., D.N.B.A.O. > Nashua Natural Medicine > 76 Northeastern Blvd., Unit 36A > Nashua, NH 03062 > ph(603) 579-0956 > fax(603) 579-0957 > Healthcare for the whole family...Naturally! > www.nashuanaturalmedicine.com > > > WMorris116@A... [WMorris116@A...] > Saturday, June 16, 2001 9:14 PM > > Re: Re: Subscription approval (Jion > Prosser's Introducti... > > > > > > Sponsor > > Enter to Win! > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing > in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, > including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2001 Report Share Posted June 23, 2001 Dear Nhung Ta, Thank you for your suggestions. If you would please read my previous post again you would see that I did not give the woman the castor oil, that was her midwife. thanks again, Sean ********************************************Sean P. Doherty, M.Sc., M.S., L.Ac., D.N.B.A.O.Nashua Natural Medicine76 Northeastern Blvd., Unit 36ANashua, NH 03062ph(603) 579-0956fax(603) 579-0957Healthcare for the whole family...Naturally!www.nashuanaturalmedicine.com Nhung Ta [nhung.ta]Thursday, June 21, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: Re: post partum hematoma Dear Nashua, I think, that it is, I just have different language, but I can not explain, you did a big mistake when you gave to her castor oil. Castor oil is yin character as similar to daihuang, the lady who borned baby should not and never give to her any thing has yin character, their blood will be poison, because the borne lady, they have different kind of blood than you are, every thing have to be warm or neutrals. My formula can not chance or similar event doze, that why I have to give to you doze on. Sometime, I put some yin character on it, but I put another yang one to take out the the yin character to nuterize the yin character. You've got to learn the character of the herbs before you give your patient the herbs. I 'm sure if you gave to her the exactly my formula and doze you can help her, as I told in the previous post the lady borne can not have yin herb character, period Regard Nhung Ta Nashua Natural Medicine wrote: Thanks to all for your replies.Previous to writing I had tried a number of things, including internal herbs, with some similarities to Nhung Ta's formula using extracts. I tried a springwind plaster, #7, and had her place a hot water bottle over it. No change to date. Castor oilpacks were suggested but the patient has a psychological aversion to castor oil. To stimulate contractions her midwifehad her drink castor oil, which did subsequently ramp up her contractions. It also gave her wicked diarrhea and dehydrated her, she began vomiting not long after too, and developed a fever. Her water had broken on a Friday at 4pm and she still had not delivered by 8am Sunday, so she was transported to the hospital. At the hospital she was found to have septocemia, and put on IV antibiotics. Needless to say she has been through the wringer. The hematoma is between the superficial fascia and rectus abdominus.Sean diane [diane] Wednesday, June 20, 2001 9:22 AM Re: Hi Sean: Somewhat complicated - if you give her strong blood movers it could be depleting right after childbirth and affect the baby through the milk. I'm assuming that the congealed blood is deep, between the lower part of the the muscle and the deep fascia, but perhaps not, perhaps it's the superficial fascia close to the skin. Either way, it would be useful to work with it through poltices - most effective if the blood is superficial. Castor oil draws through the skin and is soothing. Charcoal has similar properties. Ground flax seed draws too and is cooling. Blood movers can be used topically as well, but I don't have personal experience with them. Not sure if some would be irritating to the skin if kept on for awhile. Check your texts on topical use of blood movers. Mang xiao is supposed to break up congealed blood. There are quite a few others. Babies are sometimes very sensitive to internal herbs. I took a blood tonic when my daughter was 3 months old and she broke out in a terrible rash even though I felt great from it. At 2 weeks I would thnk there would be more opportunity for a reaction from the baby. But it would still be worth a try giving one dose of a blood moving formula to see how it is tolerated. However - she would probably still be bleeding only 2 weeks after birth. You'd have to be careful increasing the flow too much. An external poltice with mild heat applied to it would probably help the absorption. Prepare the herbs in powdered form in little baggies and then ask her to mix them with castor oil, place them over the haematoma, place gauze or telfa over it and tape it down. A microwaveable hot pack could be placed over it. You could do the first one in your office. If your treatments run about an hour, that's a good amount of time to check for skin sensitivity from any blood movers you might choose. Then you could give her packages to take home and use for increasingly longer times. The warmth might help with the pain. Meanwhile, she should be sure she has lots of help so she can lie down through this painful time snuggling and bonding with her little one. Good luck, Diane , "Nashua Natural Medicine" <sean@n...> wrote: > I have a patient that is a 32 year old female who delivered a baby girl two > weeks ago. A complication of the birth was that she ruptured her rectus > abdominus and bled a 12 centimeter hematoma periumbilically, but mostly on > the R lower quadrant. I am not sure hematoma is the right word because it > is a 12 centimeter ball of congealed blood between the muscle and fascia. > It is an extremely painful condition, and her surgeon says there is nothing > to do but wait for it to be absorbed. She can not sit up well, and the only > thing that has moderated the pain is percocet. She has been succesful at > decreasing the dosage of percocet, but still relies on it and is worried > about developing an addiction. She also has had high lymphocyte counts in > her urine, but no nitrites, her MD has treated it as a UTI with one round of > antibiotics, but with no nitrites it seems like it is more likely that she > has interstial cystitis.? During her pregnancy she developed gestational > diabetes, which has resolved as expected. She is breastfeeding. > Her tongue is swollen, moist some light red spots toward the tip > pulses are generally deep, rapid tight > > I know she has a major spleen qi deficiency, but I am a bit confounded as > where to start here. The most acute would probably be the pain from the > hematoma, but the bladder discomfort is equally problematic. > > Suggestions would be much appreciated. > > Sean > ******************************************** > Sean P. Doherty, M.Sc., M.S., L.Ac., D.N.B.A.O. > Nashua Natural Medicine > 76 Northeastern Blvd., Unit 36A > Nashua, NH 03062 > ph(603) 579-0956 > fax(603) 579-0957 > Healthcare for the whole family...Naturally! > www.nashuanaturalmedicine.com > > > WMorris116@A... [WMorris116@A...] > Saturday, June 16, 2001 9:14 PM > > Re: Re: Subscription approval (Jion > Prosser's Introducti... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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