Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Kip: Herbs decocted together would be best and have the most effective synergy, but the effect of the formula emerges even when we mix concentrates together in the office. I think it largely depends on how well the formula is mixed when it comes to indivdiual concentrated herbs. We can easily tell the differences when we change a formula, even slightly, and mix it up in the office. But the effect was even more dramatic, even surprising, when I had the formulas manufactured and bottled from individual concentrates. Since my formulas typically have more than 20 herbs, the professional mixing blended the herbs much better and made the powdered blends far more homogenized. Similarly, you can taste the improved difference in a tincture as it ages and blends. That's why if the formula is made well, it doesn't necessarily depend on the physical quantity of a single particular herb. For example, in my Headache formula (listed earlier), there are about 32 herbs or so. Bai Shao is the most and is (literally) 60 times the proportion of the least herb. It works well not in spite of it, but because of it--- it and the other proportions. Latley, I've been experimenting with changing amounts in classical formulas to reflect the proportions in the Fibonacci series with interesting and dramatic results. Jim Ramholz , " Joseph Roseman " <kipr0823@e...> wrote: > Jim, > Sorry to interject so late, but a few days ago you and Todd were having a > discussion regarding the " emergent " process that occurs with herbal > formulas. You said " herbal formulas are not the sum of their constituents. > A formula demonstrates an emergent process or capacity not predicted by the > sum of its constituent components. Emergence is a central concept of > complexity theory. " > I agree with you completely. The question this raises for me is- does this > apply only to formulas that have been decocted together? Many people I know > these days put together " formulas " of individually extracted herbs (either > in liquid or granular format). Many of these people claim relatively high > success rates. I have always felt that formulas of herbs decocted together > create an emergent template based on the pharmacological law of synergy. > These formulas created from herbs that have been decocted or extracted > alone seem to me to not achieve this level of synergy. What level of > emergence does this method achieve? > > Kip Roseman > > --- Joseph Roseman > --- kipr0823@e... > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 In a message dated 7/14/01 1:38:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jramholz writes: Latley, I've been experimenting with changing amounts in classical formulas to reflect the proportions in the Fibonacci series with interesting and dramatic results. Jim: As you know, some classical dose proportions follow Fibonacci series 3-6-9. Anyone following this dosing style is also having a similar effect. It is refreshing to hear you acknowledge it and practice it consciously. Ancient practitioners relied heavily on various numerological principles that are extent to this day for example: 3 treasures, 6 pathogens, 7 emotions, 8 principles, 13 ghost points, the list goes on. The meaning is implicit. It is through these vehicles the Shen, Hun, Po, Zhi, and Yi can be more readily accessed. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2001 Report Share Posted July 14, 2001 Will: The Fibonnaci series is 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, (add the two prior terms to make the next). You're thinking of the Enneagram's 3-6-9. Which I've been playing with when thinking about pulses by subdividing the qi, blood, organ levels into three new levels each. It follows the Daoist jing, qi, shen alchemical development series. Last night I was playing with how the Normal pulse follows the dynamics of the Klein bottle (a 4-D sphere)----and will try to work more on it today. I've identified about a dozen threads where contemporary science seems to offer more insight into the Chinese medical models. Jim Ramholz , WMorris116@A... wrote: > In a message dated 7/14/01 1:38:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > jramholz writes: > > > > Latley, I've been experimenting with changing amounts in classical > > formulas to reflect the proportions in the Fibonacci series with > > interesting and dramatic results. > > > > Jim: > As you know, some classical dose proportions follow Fibonacci series 3-6-9. > Anyone following this dosing style is also having a similar effect. It is > refreshing to hear you acknowledge it and practice it consciously. > > Ancient practitioners relied heavily on various numerological principles that > are extent to this day for example: 3 treasures, 6 pathogens, 7 emotions, 8 > principles, 13 ghost points, the list goes on. The meaning is implicit. It is > through these vehicles the Shen, Hun, Po, Zhi, and Yi can be more readily > accessed. > > Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 Peter: Since you asked, I uploaded three herbal formulas to the " Files " section that list the ingredients according to the Fibonacci series (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, . . .). It changes the energy of the formula in sometimes interesting ways. The Golden Mean dominates the 5-Phases diagram. Hua To Ginseng Pills Attributed to the legendary practitioner, this pill combines ginseng proportional to the weight of all the other herbs according to the Golden Mean ratio---a ratio that the Fibonacci series approaches as the numbers get larger. Giseng is 61.8% of the weight of the formula. I don't recall offhand another ginseng formula that balances the weight of the ginseng against all the other herbs in the formula in just this way. Du Huo Ji Sheng Tang and Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang Both formulas are listed according to the Chinese, Korean, and Fibonacci ratio, so you can judge the formula's effectiveness by each method of preparation. Let me know what you try. Jim Ramholz , " Dr. Peter Powalka " <mail@p...> wrote: > > > Kip: > > Latley, I've been experimenting with changing amounts in classical > formulas to reflect the proportions in the Fibonacci series with > interesting and dramatic results. > > Jim Ramholz > > > Sounds very interesting. Could you maybe give us an example? > > Thanks > > Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2001 Report Share Posted July 19, 2001 The formulas are written for raw herbs in grams in order to compare a single dose of the Chinese and Korean preparation. So prepare the Fibonacci sereis in grams. Don't change the numbers or you will spoil the experiment. Jim Ramholz , " Dr. Peter Powalka " <mail@p...> wrote: > > Jim: > > thank you very much for the formulas. But have another question concerning > the dosage. If the lowest herbal ingridient in a formula would be 2 grams > would you then also use the series 1,2,3,5,8,13... > or would you switch to 2,4,6,10.. or in case of having a minimum of 3 to > the series 3,6,9,15... > > Thanks again > > Peter > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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