Proposition 65

[Guest guest]

I've read Mayway's 4 page flyer on Prop 65, gone to a few websites, called a

couple other herb companies and starting reading Subhuti Dharmananda's 100

pg essay on heavy metals. Thanks, Jake, for the appendices to your new book

coming out Oct 15th. I will look for it. Partly to respond to the previous

emails, here's some of what I've learned so far: The company that sued

Mayway is called " As You Sow. " I've read that they are suing herb companies

who's products are manufactured in China. I haven't been able to determine

whether those products, simply by virtue of their being made into pills in

China, are more likely to be more contaminated than those manufactured here.

Many companies use the same raw materials so I'm wondering whether perhaps

products manufactured in the U.S. may be just as vulnerable. I have not

heard, Alon, that " As You Sow " is suing all the companies that ever sent

herbs to CA FDA for analysis. I would be interested in where you learned

that so I can follow up.

 

I have started calling 'nutraceutical' companies and found, of the 2 that I

called, both use the U.S. Pharmacopeia standards for heavy metals which are

less stringent than Proposition 65. In essence, I think that means that

Mayway's Plum Flower products, anyway, would be considered lower in heavy

metals than some (or perhaps many or all?) of the vitamins/supplements one

sees in health food stores. Proposition 65 doesn't require that products be

below any level of heavy metals it only requires that those products sold in

CA which exceed the Prop 65 levels be labelled so that consumers know they

are purchasing a product which contains " substances known to cause cancer

and birth defects. "

 

I don't understand your statement below, that " Companies like KPC and

springwind already comply by testing for heavy metals and AA. " I thought

compliance meant that if your products are below the stated levels, no

problem. If they're above, then they must notify their consumers that

" substances known to cause cancer . . . " Do you mean that KPC and

springwind have tested all their products and they are all below the Prop 65

levels? I think if a company hasn't tested all their products they may be

vulnerable.

 

" I do not think it will affect raw herbs and powders from

reputable companies. " I'm interested in why you think that's the case.

Mayway was using the Australian standards which are lower than USP so I

think they are certainly reputable in this area. I have received some raw

herbs from them with that 'cancer' label on them, too. If I re-sell any of

these products in California then I am legally responsible for warning my

patients.

 

I called one U.S. herb supplier and manufacturer (in China) of bottled

formulas, and they didn't even know yet about Prop 65.

 

I hope I don't sound alarmist. . . I feel a responsibility to my patients to

learn and digest this information. What I've learned so far doesn't worry ME

about heavy metals but the more I know, the better I can field my patient's

questions. Now I'm looking at whether I can draw a comparison between the

heavy metals we consume in water and food to those in herbs. I'll post any

conclusions I draw. Anyone have any more info?

 

Marian

 

 

 

" Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus wrote:

I have just heard from one of the suppliers that they are actually after

money from the herb companies. They are suing all the companies that have

ever sent herbs to CA FDA for analysis. Also many herbs probably do not

comply with the levels required because they are quite unreasonable.

Alon

 

 

-

Todd

cha

Cc: Benjamin Dierauf

Sunday, September 30, 2001 6:45 PM

prop 65

 

 

Here is a good link on prop 65.

http://www.prop65news.com/pubs/brochure/madesimple.html

 

It only requires warnings on certain products; it does not ban any herbal

products as far as I can tell

 

Companies like KPC and springwind already comply by testing for heavy

metals and AA.

 

However, you will now see such warnings in chinese herb shops that carry

patents from china.

 

I do not think it will affect raw herbs and powders from reputable

companies. Does anyone have additional info?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/3/01 8:34:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jramholz writes:

 

 

Who owns "As You Sow"---a pharmaceutical company?

 

http://www.asyousow.org/

 

This appears to be a legitimate social activist organization. Conspiracy was my first thought.

 

Will

[Guest guest]

, " Marian Blum " <marianb@r...> wrote:

The company that sued Mayway is called " As You Sow. " I've read that

they are suing herb companies who's products are manufactured in

China.

 

 

Who owns " As You Sow " ---a pharmaceutical company?

[Guest guest]

, " Marian Blum " <marianb@r...> wrote:

I haven't been able to determine

> whether those products, simply by virtue of their being made into pills in

> China, are more likely to be more contaminated than those manufactured here.

 

I think it is the machinery that is implicated in the contamination of

herbs made in china. Machinery is often used that has made with lead

components that contact the herbs. Plus, some companies may have used

small amounts of heavy metals as " medicinals " in the past (if not

currently) and these may contaminate other products made on the same

machinery.

 

.. "

>

> I don't understand your statement below, that " Companies like KPC and

> springwind already comply by testing for heavy metals and AA. " I thought

> compliance meant that if your products are below the stated levels, no

> problem

 

All KPC herbs are tested for heavy metals and AA. I don't use raw

herbs in my practice.

 

 

> " I do not think it will affect raw herbs and powders from

> reputable companies. " I'm interested in why you think that's the case.

> Mayway was using the Australian standards which are lower than USP so I

> think they are certainly reputable in this area. I have received some raw

> herbs from them with that 'cancer' label on them, too.

 

I think eventually all the herbs will be tested by certain companies

and economic pressures will force others to conform or they will lose

business. I certainly would not use any herbs that came with such a

label, because I think it would be aliability for me if ANYTHING, no

matter how tenuously connected resulted to a patient uder my care who

was taking such herbs.

 

[Guest guest]

I've read that they are suing herb companieswho's products are manufactured in China.

 

>>>>No they also sued Andru's company (Made in USA) and Lotus herbs (Made in Taiwan) for example. This is a scheme to make money. Apparently even GMP companies vary quite a lot in levels. For example Bioessence makes pills as well as 5/1 tablets in the same factory in launchao. The traditional pills contain a higher amount of heavy metals because the traditional method of making them still has a lot of fiber which apparently has a higher levels of heavy metals. Their tablets concentration is made by a more modern methods and contains less. Bioessence (Tashi) will not sell the pills in CA but will sell the tablets.

 

By the way the company that is suing is not only using Prop 65 but anything they can thing of to make money. Prop 65 sounds like a scheme by a nice sounding (i.e. proconsumer advocate enviermetalist) lawyer firms that is just after money. They are going after anybody they think they can win against. They are a small firm with limited funds so at this point they are going after companies that can not afford to hire big firm layer types

Alon

[Guest guest]

 

 

Maybe someone has already said this on this list in the past, but, as

principal in a business which markets herbal extracts manufactured in

China, what I've been told by our suppliers is that the heavy metals

that are found in Chinese herbs and products made from these herbs are

in the soil. They are residues from past use of fertilizers,

herbicides, and pesticides which are taken up by the plants grown in

these soils. All the machiney which comes in contact with any of our

products during their manufacture is welded stainless steel, not

soldered copper.

 

Bob

 

, @i... wrote:

> , " Marian Blum " <marianb@r...> wrote:

> I haven't been able to determine

> > whether those products, simply by virtue of their being made into

pills in

> > China, are more likely to be more contaminated than those

manufactured here.

>

> I think it is the machinery that is implicated in the contamination

of

> herbs made in china. Machinery is often used that has made with

lead

> components that contact the herbs. Plus, some companies may have

used

> small amounts of heavy metals as " medicinals " in the past (if not

> currently) and these may contaminate other products made on the same

> machinery.

>

> . "

> >

> > I don't understand your statement below, that " Companies

like KPC and

> > springwind already comply by testing for heavy metals and AA. " I

thought

> > compliance meant that if your products are below the stated

levels, no

> > problem

>

> All KPC herbs are tested for heavy metals and AA. I don't use raw

> herbs in my practice.

>

>

> > " I do not think it will affect raw herbs and powders

from

> > reputable companies. " I'm interested in why you think that's the

case.

> > Mayway was using the Australian standards which are lower than USP

so I

> > think they are certainly reputable in this area. I have received

some raw

> > herbs from them with that 'cancer' label on them, too.

>

> I think eventually all the herbs will be tested by certain companies

> and economic pressures will force others to conform or they will

lose

> business. I certainly would not use any herbs that came with such a

> label, because I think it would be aliability for me if ANYTHING, no

> matter how tenuously connected resulted to a patient uder my care

who

> was taking such herbs.

>

 

[Guest guest]

James Ramholz wrote:

 

> Who owns " As You Sow " ---a pharmaceutical company?

 

Here they are:

http://www.asyousow.org/index40.htm

 

In their words:

 

As You Sow is a non-profit organization dedicated to promoting corporate

accountability. Our

mission is to hold corporations accountable for complying with consumer,

workplace and

environmental laws.

 

Our two current programs are:

 

Enforcement of the Proposition 65 toxics labeling law

Shareholder Advocacy through our Corporate Accountability Program.

 

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

FROM Bob...what I've been told by our suppliers is that the heavy metals

that are found in Chinese herbs and products made from these herbs are

in the soil. They are residues from past use of fertilizers,

herbicides, and pesticides which are taken up by the plants grown in

these soils. All the machiney which comes in contact with any of our

products during their manufacture is welded stainless steel, not

soldered copper.

 

FROM Stephen: I can corroborate the above statements and would add that in

some cases a substantial portion of the heavy metals in an extract are the

result of not having thoroughly washed the dirt off the plant material prior

to extraction.

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I can corroborate the above statements and would add that insome cases a substantial portion of the heavy metals in an extract are theresult of not having thoroughly washed the dirt off the plant material priorto extraction.>>>>>Me need to understand that the same formula made in the same factory, one being the traditional balls we see and the other a modern extraction concentration have such different levels of metals. If I understand it is because the plant fibers attract the matel. Which means it is possible to minimize levels Evan though it is in the plant.

Alon

 

-

Stephen Morrissey

Thursday, October 04, 2001 12:16 PM

RE: Re: Proposition 65

FROM Bob...what I've been told by our suppliers is that the heavy metalsthat are found in Chinese herbs and products made from these herbs arein the soil. They are residues from past use of fertilizers,herbicides, and pesticides which are taken up by the plants grown inthese soils. All the machiney which comes in contact with any of ourproducts during their manufacture is welded stainless steel, notsoldered copper.FROM Stephen: I can corroborate the above statements and would add that insome cases a substantial portion of the heavy metals in an extract are theresult of not having thoroughly washed the dirt off the plant material priorto extraction.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcarepractitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializingin Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

, pemachophel2001 wrote:

 

All the machiney which comes in contact with any of our

> products during their manufacture is welded stainless steel, not

> soldered copper.

>

 

 

Bob

 

I know that your supplier meets GMP standfards or higher when it comes

to issues like lead solders, but it is my understanding that this is

not the rule in China, where regulatory enforcement is lax. I still

think this is the source of the problem in SOME cases. Your point on

soil is well taken, though.

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

I've visited a number of Chinese medical factories in China. Even back

in the early 80s, I never saw any copper machinery with lead solder in

any of these factories. (Having been a jeweler in my earlier life,

I am observant of and more than averagely knowledgeable about how

pieces of metal are put together.) All equipment and machinery which I

saw was welded stainless steel. Granted, I have not seen all Chinese

medical factories in China. I believe I've visited maybe 6-8

such factories, mostly in southeast China. However, the only place I

saw lead-soldered copper medicine-making machinery was in hospitals

where they were making ready-made medicines for use in their

hospitals.

 

I used to have many slides of both the factories I visited and some of

this cruder, lead-soldered copper machinery in hospital manufacturies.

Unfortunately, all my China slides have mysteriously disappeared from

the Blue Poppy premises. Otherwise, I would've been happy to post

these pics on the internet.

 

What I'm saying here is that, having visited a number of Chinese

pharmaceutical factories from 1982-86, I haven't seen any lead-solder

joins in the equipment or machinery I saw.

 

On the other hand, the issue is not so much about how these heavy

metal contaminants get into the medicines we prescribe but A) how much

of them are actually in these medicines and B) are these levels safe

and acceptable given the current state of our knowledge about such

things.

 

Bob

 

, @i... wrote:

> , pemachophel2001 wrote:

>

> All the machiney which comes in contact with any of our

> > products during their manufacture is welded stainless steel, not

> > soldered copper.

> >

>

>

> Bob

>

> I know that your supplier meets GMP standfards or higher when it

comes

> to issues like lead solders, but it is my understanding that this is

> not the rule in China, where regulatory enforcement is lax. I still

> think this is the source of the problem in SOME cases. Your point

on

> soil is well taken, though.

>