Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 I recently taught a formulas class on astringent formulas. When discussing spermatorrhea, I mentioned Kapchuk's claim that spermatorrhea was actually a euphemism for masturbation. One of my students took exception to this and asked me to consider whether spermatorrhea actually referred to the initial stages of venereal diseases (STD's). His position is that the discharge of VD could actually have been misinterpreted as sperm and would have been associated with a variety of "improper" sexual behaviors. Of course, masturbation would actually be safe in this regard, but nevertheless, it got me thinking. what does spermatorrhea mean? And what did the chinese know or do about VD in ancient times. are there speculations on sexual transmission of dz in the med lit? -- , VOICE: (858) 946-0070 FAX: (858) 946-0067 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 In a message dated 10/6/01 10:42:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rcampbell155 writes: << Almost all STD also Show S/S of Heat And Blood Stag.witch separate them from spermatorrhea. >> And you wouldn't use astringent formulas for STD -- there need to be signs of deficiency, not holding, etc. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 > I recently taught a formulas class on astringent formulas. When > discussing spermatorrhea, I mentioned Kapchuk's claim that spermatorrhea > was actually a euphemism for masturbation. One of my students took > exception to this and asked me to consider whether spermatorrhea > actually referred to the initial stages of venereal diseases (STD's). First, spermatorrhea is a modern English term and it probably is used to translate a number of traditional Chinese medical terms. So from the start, this topic is prone to confusions. This is magnified by the problematic nature of the central term " jing1 " which in Chinese means both " essence " and " sperm " . In the Practical Dictionary, you can start to unravel the knots here by checking on p. 523 -525 (Second edition). The PD includes several terms that deal with the subject, yi2 jing1, hua2 jing1 particularly. I am unfamiliar with Kaptchuk's claim, but from what you state it doesn't seem particularly meaningful. Since ancient times, the Chinese have been relatively savy on the subject of sex, and it doesn't make sense at all to consign the terminology on the subject to the category of euphemism. I can't say definitively that such Chinese terms were never used to refer to masturbation, but clearly they are distinct terms that have distinct meanings. So it's really not clear to me what Kaptchuk's claim might mean. > His position is that the discharge of VD could actually have been > misinterpreted as sperm and would have been associated with a variety of > " improper " sexual behaviors. This doesn't make a good deal of sense either, as it presumes a high level of unfamiliarity and ignorance, which is not reflected in the literature. Of course, masturbation would actually be > safe in this regard, but nevertheless, it got me thinking. what does > spermatorrhea mean? As I said, it's likely been used to translate several Chinese terms. And what did the chinese know or do about VD in > ancient times. are there speculations on sexual transmission of dz in > the med lit? > Of course the Chinese did not know about VD in the terms that we think of it until those terms were imported from Western medical sources. But they knew about dangers related to sex and a range of diseases. There is a great deal of literature from various eras about sexual disease and sexual transmission of disease, especially diseases that arise from excessive indulgence in sex. The English language literature on this subject is scant and often plagued with simplistic renderings of complex Chinese notions. We've got literally pounds of material on this subject that we collected for a forthcoming book on the subject of ancient Chinese sexual culture and its relationship with Chinese medical theory and practice. I hope this helps. It's an extensive subject. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Ken: Hugh Shapiro has a great article on just this topice--- " The Puzzle of Spermatorrhea in Republican China " ---in Positions: East Asia Cultures Critque (Volume 6, #3, Winter 1998) published by Duke University. It shows how the concept and its associations changed during history. Jim Ramholz , yulong@m... wrote: > > > > > I recently taught a formulas class on astringent formulas. When > > discussing spermatorrhea, I mentioned Kapchuk's claim that > spermatorrhea > > was actually a euphemism for masturbation. One of my students took > > exception to this and asked me to consider whether spermatorrhea > > actually referred to the initial stages of venereal diseases > (STD's). > > First, spermatorrhea is a modern English term and it > probably is used to translate a number of traditional > Chinese medical terms. So from the start, this topic > is prone to confusions. This is magnified by the > problematic nature of the central term " jing1 " > which in Chinese means both " essence " and " sperm " . > > In the Practical Dictionary, you can start to > unravel the knots here by checking on p. 523 -525 > (Second edition). The PD includes several terms > that deal with the subject, yi2 jing1, hua2 jing1 > particularly. > > I am unfamiliar with Kaptchuk's claim, but from > what you state it doesn't seem particularly > meaningful. Since ancient times, the Chinese > have been relatively savy on > the subject of sex, and it doesn't make sense > at all to consign the terminology on the subject > to the category of euphemism. I can't say > definitively that such Chinese terms were > never used to refer to masturbation, but > clearly they are distinct terms that have > distinct meanings. So it's really not > clear to me what Kaptchuk's claim might > mean. > > > His position is that the discharge of VD could actually have been > > misinterpreted as sperm and would have been associated with a > variety of > > " improper " sexual behaviors. > > This doesn't make a good deal of sense either, > as it presumes a high level of unfamiliarity > and ignorance, which is not reflected in the literature. > > Of course, masturbation would actually be > > safe in this regard, but nevertheless, it got me thinking. what > does > > spermatorrhea mean? > > As I said, it's likely been used to translate > several Chinese terms. > > And what did the chinese know or do about VD in > > ancient times. are there speculations on sexual transmission of dz > in > > the med lit? > > > Of course the Chinese did not know about > VD in the terms that we think of it until > those terms were imported from Western > medical sources. But they knew about dangers > related to sex and a range of diseases. There is a great > deal of literature from various eras about sexual > disease and sexual transmission of disease, especially > diseases that arise from excessive indulgence in > sex. The English language literature on this subject > is scant and often plagued with simplistic renderings > of complex Chinese notions. > > We've got literally pounds of material on this > subject that we collected for a forthcoming > book on the subject of ancient Chinese sexual > culture and its relationship with Chinese > medical theory and practice. > > I hope this helps. It's an extensive subject. > > Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 > > I recently taught a formulas class on astringent formulas. When > discussing spermatorrhea, I mentioned Kapchuk's claim that > spermatorrhea was actually a euphemism for masturbation. My Chinese friends also disagree with this take on the term " spermatorrhea " . According to them, it is not a euphemism for masturbation. I myself differentiate two types of noctorunal emissions. Those that are accompanied by a dream, and those that are not. When there's a dream, there is some sort of Heart involvement, whether excess or deficient in cause. When there is no dream, that is the straight forward Kidney Qi deficiency or acute fearful experience that causes a relaxing of the lower gates which allows jing to flow out inappropriately. I call that one spermatorrhea. I also differentiate the difference between spermatorrhea and the lubricating/cleansing fluid that will appear on the tip of the penis with sexual excitement regardless of whether or not an erection is present. This is physiology, not pathology. I have yet to see a case where this is so excessive so as to cause anything beyond some underwear stain issues. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Almost all STD also Show S/S of Heat And Blood Stag.witch separate them from spermatorrhea. - cha Saturday, October 06, 2001 1:28 AM spermatorrhea I recently taught a formulas class on astringent formulas. When discussing spermatorrhea, I mentioned Kapchuk's claim that spermatorrhea was actually a euphemism for masturbation. One of my students took exception to this and asked me to consider whether spermatorrhea actually referred to the initial stages of venereal diseases (STD's). His position is that the discharge of VD could actually have been misinterpreted as sperm and would have been associated with a variety of "improper" sexual behaviors. Of course, masturbation would actually be safe in this regard, but nevertheless, it got me thinking. what does spermatorrhea mean? And what did the chinese know or do about VD in ancient times. are there speculations on sexual transmission of dz in the med lit? -- Chinese Herbs VOICE: (858) 946-0070 FAX: (858) 946-0067 Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Karen S Vaughan wrote: > > Al- > > Are you saying that wet dreams are generally pathological? Yeah, I'd say so, but we also have to realize that adolescence gives rise to a lot of imbalances that are simply grown through. So wet dreams for a young man is indicative of his exuberant Yang qi, but whether we want to actually fix it is a personal decision. When exuberance becomes excessive, when it turns into violent rage, when it turns into severe acne, when it turns into socially uncomfortable situations where his physiology is popping out at inappropriate moments, then we've got something to fix. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Al- Are you saying that wet dreams are generally pathological? Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. All that is necessary is to accept the impossible, do without the indispensable, and bear the intolerable.-- Kathleen Norris ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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