Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Hi, > from a TCM perspective, it appears that properly > practiced CR would > allow optimum nutrition to replenish yin, yang, qi > and blood, yet would prevent buildup of phlegm, damp and blood stasis. > It is my understanding that the animals who are forced to do this are very > unhappy. Perhaps humans could mitigate this with > yoga and meditation > (which also seem to slow biological aging -- we > don't know if they > extend life because animals cannot be trained to do > these activities. ) Many people misunderstand our ancient wisdom(chinese) quite much.I have been learn TM as well as chinese meditation for more then ten years. Those theory never restrict people's diet.If some one ate less after practice meditation and Qi-Kun,this is because of the nature reaction of your body not by force or personal intention to do so.it surely happened by the nature need of the body. Chinese philosiphy never think about be the God of earthe(which western people always want to play the role.I am worry about the gene modification,this will distory human civilization and TCM herbal medicine)we always seeking the harmony with the nature. In mordentime,we accept western styl education and people in Taiwan and China changed our ancient wisdom living philosophy.We pay extremely price for the changed philosophy. Jean ===== -- < ºô ¸ô ¥Í ¬¡¡EºÉ ¦b ©_¼¯ > http://www.kimo.com.tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 , Jeansu <jeansu009> wrote: > > Many people misunderstand our ancient wisdom(chinese) > quite much.I have been learn TM as well as chinese > meditation for more then ten years. > > Those theory never restrict people's diet.If some one > ate less after practice meditation and Qi-Kun,this is > because of the nature reaction of your body not by > force or personal intention to do so.it surely > happened by the nature need of the body. Jean You may be unfamiliar with yogic philosophies that encourage restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism. these ideas are definitely part of eastern culture. While I mainly refer to india, I have read taoist sources that talk about this, as well. for example, Buddha explored extensive fasting and deprivation in his quest for immortality. He decided it was folly and chose the middle path, but he was definitely pursuing a common path at that time in history. Many hindu teachers still write about what is called sattvic diet, which involves the consumption of only light cleansing foods. Accounts exist of sadhus who eat only one bowl of rice per day. These accounts are written by hindus; they are not misinterpretations by westerners. I don't think these approaches to diet are desirable for the average person, but I still think they might play some role for those whose goals are spiritual rather than material. Is it just a remarkable coincidence how many accounts of extreme longevity in eastern culture include restricting or giving up food? Admittedly, these same accounts also involve those who no longer move in the mundane world, but live in the Himalayas or forests after renouncing normal life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 " Alon mentioned calorie restriction as the only proven method of life extension (albeit in rodents). " I was wondering if there is any evidence ,antedotal or otherwise , if people have experienced reversal of gray hair, less wrinkles, improved posture increased libido etc and other obvious age reversal signs as opposed to using measured levels of increased level of melatonin or testosterone or what ever hormone to determine that the diet promotes longivity. Heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Dear Prof. I have to apologize first if my opinions offense yours. ¡§You may be unfamiliar with yogic philosophies that encourage restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism.¡¨ Try Me!! HaHa! I might be not quite familiar with Vedic, believe or not, Eastern theories are All the same. How deep do you understand about ¡§India, Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, and their relationship with TCM¡¨? After lao3-Zi, we didn¡¦t see any real Taoist like him or surpass him; After Buddha, we didn¡¦t see any new Buddha born at our world (as well as Jesus, Mohammad), and it has been 1000s Years since. As my nderstanding, There is no longer any Buddhist in India, most of them are Hindu and many more other India religions. What does this mean? Why no longer born any new Holy in this world since? /or someone become a new Holy spiritual after practice those yogic philosophies or Tao theory (as well as follow the bible, Buddha bible)? Because they (the follower) all missing their directions and doing wrong things (restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism).Haaa! People added human opinions after those Holy spiritual, and telling us God says (Buddha says, Lao3-Zi says and who says). Actually, Holys says ¡§nothing¡¨, am I right? Haaa! So, Since Holys says ¡§nothing¡¨, those restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism are not the correct way to reach immortality. Believe or not, I am one of the best friends of Buddha (Ha! Ha! Human opinion). He told me, after he walk out the forest, he met a girl who was milking milk. He was so weak because of (restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism),he drank whole bottle of milk .. After that, He get survival and continued his long life, but, I don¡¦t think (restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism) made him long life. The place he lived and the food he ate (many rich person support him) was the main reason of his long life, I guess. He requested his follower to beg the food for mercy those people who don¡¦t know how to pursue immortality (No defense, I am a Buddhist, too, I don¡¦t want to explain too many Buddha theories). I don¡¦t think his follower picked meat out of his bowl and only keep vegetables. Foods are so valuable because any single rice came from the donor valued like the heave of mountain (Buddha Bible). Buddhist shouldn¡¦t waste food. After Buddha passing away,His follower made rules to keep the follower¡¦s confidence because there had no longer The Buddha told us how to reach immortality. In short, we didn¡¦t see any Hindu became Holy spiritual in 20 Century. Why should people need to do as (restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism) those Hindu¡¦s behavior? As my understanding, restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism is a negative way to purify human body (which is the nature respond of your body after doing meditation or doing some spiritual cleaning pray) because it(restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism) is not nature, people have to force his own will to do so, this cause painful and not much people can stand for it, included Buddha(Ha! because it is quite un-necessary). Why people love vegetarianism in modern century? Because there are poisons every where on earth, vegetarianism is a nature respond to avoid the poisons of meat( antibiotics for eatable animals use, too) But, the whole earth can not avoid the chemistry poisons because rain and ocean fluid to every where. So, I would like to suggest, restrictive chemistry stuff, fasting chemistry and asceticism chemistry. Turn our living environment back to 1000s years ago, after that, the Holy spiritual will Reborn on Earth. Ha! Ha! Ha! Viva!! Nature Law. NO restrictive diet, fasting and asceticism!!Ha! Ha! Jean ===== -- < ºô ¸ô ¥Í ¬¡¡EºÉ ¦b ©_¼¯ > http://www.kimo.com.tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Todd what is CR Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I cant believe they have a whole web site for CR Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I was wondering if there is any evidence ,antedotal or otherwise , ifpeople have experienced reversal of gray hair, less wrinkles, improvedposture increased libido etc and other obvious age reversal signs asopposed to using measured levels of increased level of melatonin ortestosterone or what ever hormone to determine that the diet promoteslongivity.>>>>As well as quality of life. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Buddha explored extensive fasting and deprivation in his quest for immortality. He decided it was folly and chose the middle path, but he was definitely pursuing a common path at that time in history. Many hindu teachers still write about what is called sattvic diet, which involves the consumption of only light cleansing foods. Accounts exist of sadhus who eat only one bowl of rice per day. These >>>>I have always wandered if these yogies could live a life of a manual worker etc. If such diets could sustain modern men in a modern society. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 ÿþ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 , <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > I was wondering if there is any evidence ,antedotal or otherwise , if > people have experienced reversal of gray hair, less wrinkles, improved > posture increased libido etc and other obvious age reversal signs as > opposed to using measured levels of increased level of melatonin or > testosterone or what ever hormone to determine that the diet promotes > longivity. > >>>>As well as quality of life. > Alon there are no human studies. animal studies show extended lifespan. Quality of life goes down the tubes though because the animals become sedentary, reclusive and irritable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 , <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > >>>>I have always wandered if these yogies could live a life of a manual worker etc. If such diets could sustain modern men in a modern society. > Alon I doubt it; they are typically renunciates who no longer participate in society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 , <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > I cant believe they have a whole web site for CR > Alon Really? There are hundreds of sites devoted to breast enlargement. Anything that even one person has an interest in probably has a site somewhere. I have yet to enter a search in google that doesn't come up with at least a few hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I doubt it; they are typically renunciates who no longer participate in society. >>>I suspect you are right Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I have yet to enter a search in google that doesn't come up with at least a few hits >>>amazing ist it] Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Hi,Guys, > I was wondering if there is any evidence ,antedotal or otherwise , if people have experienced reversal of gray hair, less wrinkles, improved posture increased libido etc and other obvious age reversal signs as > opposed to using measured levels of increased level of melatonin or testosterone or what ever hormone to determine that the diet promotes longivity. > >>>>As well as quality of life. > Alon >there are no human studies. animal studies show >extended lifespan. >Quality of life goes down the tubes though because >the animals become sedentary, reclusive and irritable. How about think this way: If the life cycle of one single cell is duplicate 50 times,and it need one months(assume).Now, Those Yogi's daily practice(food ,meditation,excerise..) can delay or lengthen the time into 3 months. Slowing down all Matabolism cycle.Could human life add triple ? Maybe the aging can reach 200 years old,But,this is not imortality. Jean ===== -- < ºô ¸ô ¥Í ¬¡¡EºÉ ¦b ©_¼¯ > http://www.kimo.com.tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 One of my Buddhist teachers' teacher, Jetsun Shuksep Kangma, lived to 125 and only ate very, very sparingly. In Tibetan Buddhism, calorie restriction is part of the practice of chu-len, translated as alchemy, which is still very much alive and practiced. There are different types of chu-len, all having to do with CR. Eventually, one only sucks on stones to keep the mouth hydrated. Instead, one " eats the sky. " I don't know how far along this path the Jetsun had gotten. However, by the time Jetsun Shuksep Kangma was over 100, she spent all her time sitting in lotus, day and night. Every now and then she would nod off holding a rope suspended from the rof of her cave for this purpose. My teacher, Tsedzin Dechen Lhamo, used to massage the Jetsun's legs. It is not clear that the Jetsun could still walk by this tme. If so, only with the support of others. Shuksep Kang means the Snow Mountain Covered by Juniper (if I remember correctly). My point being that this famous and well-documented lady Lama was living as a hermitess in the mountains. She wasn't going to work every day in downtown Lhasa. Make of this what you will. Bob , Jeansu <jeansu009> wrote: > Hi,Guys, > > > I was wondering if there is any evidence ,antedotal > or otherwise , if people have experienced reversal of > gray hair, less wrinkles, improved posture increased > libido etc and other obvious age reversal signs as > > opposed to using measured levels of increased > level of melatonin or testosterone or what ever > hormone to determine that the diet promotes longivity. > > >>>>As well as quality of life. > > Alon > > >there are no human studies. animal studies show > >extended lifespan. > >Quality of life goes down the tubes though because > >the animals become sedentary, reclusive and > irritable. > > > How about think this way: > If the life cycle of one single cell is duplicate > 50 times,and it need one months(assume).Now, Those > Yogi's daily practice(food ,meditation,excerise..) > can delay or lengthen the time into 3 months. > > Slowing down all Matabolism cycle.Could human life > add triple ? Maybe the aging can reach 200 years > old,But,this is not imortality. > > Jean > > > > > ===== > > > -- > < ºô ¸ô ¥Í ¬¡¡EºÉ ¦b ©_¼¯ > http://www.kimo.com.tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 jean,todd and alon, just to add to jean's ideas..... The budha did not live such a long life. he died at the age of 80, after suffering severe food poisoning ( bad mushrooms....).So even he is not a good example of longetivaty. Yet he did gain spiritual enlightment, witch is by far different then those of the hindu ideas. Actually his whole teaching actually came against the present upanishad ideas , who did encourage fasts etc. > > > > Re: calorie restriction >Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:07:51 -0000 > >, wrote: > > I was wondering if there is any evidence ,antedotal or otherwise , if > > people have experienced reversal of gray hair, less wrinkles, improved > > posture increased libido etc and other obvious age reversal signs as > > opposed to using measured levels of increased level of melatonin or > > testosterone or what ever hormone to determine that the diet promotes > > longivity. > > >>>>As well as quality of life. > > Alon > >there are no human studies. animal studies show extended lifespan. >Quality of life goes down the tubes though because the animals become >sedentary, reclusive and irritable. > >Todd > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 80, after suffering severe food poisoning ( bad mushrooms....).So even he is not a good example of longetivaty >>>That is old especially for those days Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Hi,Bob, >One of my Buddhist teachers' teacher, Jetsun Shuksep Kangma, lived to 125 and only ate very, very sparingly. In Tibetan Buddhism, calorie restriction is part of the practice of chu-len, translated as alchemy, which is still very much alive and practiced. There are different types of chu-len, all having to do with CR. Because Buddha was come from India.So,India's HIndu and yogi's practice method also affect Buddist.I don't denile this part.But,CR ,fasting..should happened spontaneously,expecially after those practices. >Eventually, one only sucks on stones to keep the mouth hydrated. Instead, one " eats the sky. " Well,this is not suprise.And,It's not " eats the sky " ,It's eat " Air " .We might think they are out of mind.But,Imagin in this way: There are molecules on the air (water molecules , pollen molecules, sugar molecules,and so on althou we can't see them in eyes.)If your Qi-Kun(or ability) is excellent enough ,you can catch those molecules from the air and they are nutrition which can support human's daily needs. But,this have to count on the fresh air and pure clean enviorment.If your masters was not in Taibat,I don't think he(she) can survivle by ate dirty air in LA Or Chicago(Ha!they will die very soon by the air poison).This is what I mean turn our enviorment back to 1000s years ago. My question is :Why people have to gain such long life if he/she really don't know what he need to do on the earth?( most people don't know the meaning of life) It's will quite boring because your good friends,even your children,family are all gone except you.It is a curse.Haa! Jean ===== -- < ºô ¸ô ¥Í ¬¡¡EºÉ ¦b ©_¼¯ > http://www.kimo.com.tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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