Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I am wondering if anyone in the group has experience using placenta. I see it listed as an ingredient in many of my cancer rx's. One of my concerns in this regard is that it is rich with hormone. would that potentiate cancer in a hormonally reactive tumor? and also- when would we really want it as a tonic? when would nothing else be sufficient? Do we need to be concerned about hepatitis? I have some experience using it, mainly for infertility, but I'm looking for input. thanks, Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 , Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...> wrote: One of my concerns in > this regard is that it is rich with hormone. would that potentiate cancer in > a hormonally reactive tumor? definitely a concern in that regard, IMO > and also- when would we really want it as a tonic? when would nothing else > be sufficient? Do we need to be concerned about hepatitis? correct me but I think placenta is illegal for import right now due to lack of infectious disease controls in china. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 > > correct me but I think placenta is illegal for import right now due to > lack of infectious disease controls in china. > I'll check and back to you on that -- China Herb Company Cara O. Frank, R.Ac herbbabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 I use placenta frequently, which I get in granule form from Springwind Herbs/Tong Ren. I use it mostly with my advanced HIV patients who show extreme deficiency. Before I began to use if routinely I got mediocre results with these guys who were clearly on the way out. Upon adding it I quickly saw fairly dramatic improvements in several areas: energy, libido, weight gain (in about 1/2 the cases), and interestingly enough, sleep. The lovely thing about granules, from a client perspective, is that you can't see what the 'herb' looks like. This has enabled me to frequently use the grosser bits of our materia medica, such as leech, earthworm, silkworm, and placenta. In the old decoction days, bit of rehydratated silkworm floating to the top of the boiling herbs sent many a clients looking for less green pastures! Incidentally, fresh placenta doesn't taste all that bad, sort of like liver. Mark Reese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Mark Reese wrote " energy, libido, weight gain (in about 1/2 the cases), and interestingly enough, sleep. " could it be because it supplements blood and helps the heart. I have never quite worked out why HIV in later stages causes insomnia. Heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 and the dried placenta looks like a cookie > > Incidentally, fresh placenta doesn't taste all that bad, sort of like liver. > > ---~-> > -- Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 , Heiko Lade <heiko@l...> wrote: I have never quite worked out why HIV in later stages causes insomnia. Wouldn't it be heat in the blood causing an imbalance between fire and water, and heat vexing the heart. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 , " James Ramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > , Heiko Lade <heiko@l...> wrote: > I have never quite worked out why HIV in later stages causes insomnia. > > > > Wouldn't it be heat in the blood causing an imbalance between fire > and water, and heat vexing the heart. > > Jim Ramholz I think it varies from various sources of heat to various types of xu. I have seen blood heat, blood stasis, liver depression fire, yin xu heat, yin fire, blood xu all lead to insomnia in HIV patients. If zi he che cures it then it was a xu case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Exactly what I suspect. Mark - < Monday, October 08, 2001 12:45 PM Re: placenta > , " James Ramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > > , Heiko Lade <heiko@l...> wrote: > > I have never quite worked out why HIV in later stages causes insomnia. > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be heat in the blood causing an imbalance between fire > > and water, and heat vexing the heart. > > > > Jim Ramholz > > I think it varies from various sources of heat to various types of xu. > I have seen blood heat, blood stasis, liver depression fire, yin xu > heat, yin fire, blood xu all lead to insomnia in HIV patients. If zi > he che cures it then it was a xu case. > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 The virus itself is a type of Shaoyang heat. Because the virus is slow acting, even before symptoms are evident or when a drug cocktail is suppressing the viral load, the pulse will still show some percentage of onion-stalk quality (especially in the right middle); and vacuity (xu) in the left proximal. The heat in the blood is not the excessive (shi) type; the heat shows in the pulses more as wind (and sometimes with dryness) because the water element (whose depletion forms the empty core of the onion- stalk quality) is becoming exhausted. The heart of the viral activity takes place as the 5-Phases within the earth element itself (so we're looking at 5-Phases within 5- Phases). As heat (viral load) builds in the earth element (white blood cells and lymph), fire is attacking metal. In 5-Phases, the Revenge Cycle is an important aspect of the immune response (the ability of the body to re-establish self-organization); the child attempts to rescue the mother. In the case of AIDS, the Revenge Cycle is subverted, and water does not suppress the fire (virus). > I have seen blood heat, blood stasis, liver depression fire, yin xu > heat, yin fire, blood xu all lead to insomnia in HIV patients. If zi he che cures it then it was a xu case. > Blood heat, blood stasis, liver depression fire, yin xu heat, yin fire, and blood xu are a consequence of the process going on in the Earth Phase. Symptoms are strong contrasts between two different functions, organs, etc. Even before these symptoms appear, the 5- Phases within the Earth Phase are going on, and should be evident in the pulses. Zi He Che can, of course, help symptomatically but the xu case was not the root; it is a branch. Jim Ramholz James Ramholz Silk Road Acupuncture Center 112 E. Laurel Fort Collins, CO 80524-3029 (970) 482-5900 Voice (970) 482-4681 Fax (303) 522-3348 Cell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Jim, I appreciate your thoughts, however having read many thoughts on HIV = this or that in TCM and having treated many people over the years, I find that no one theory covers everyone I see. Certainly I have seen a lot of shao yang patterns. However, as Todd says, the heat which causes the insomnia does seem to come from a variety of sources depending very much on the individual and there situation. I do not use 5 phase very much in diagnosis, but I suspect that the same would hold true for that system. Mark Reese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Mark, I think you've made a good point here. My experience is that we choose the theory that fits the patient, not the other way round. Some HIV patients' presentations may be best described by Wen Bing theory, others by Shang Han, yet others may best fit a Five Phase description. To me, one of the strong points of Chinese medicine as a system is that it offers a number of different subsystems (following Chinese precedents, I generally ennumerate 10) for describing patterns and, therefore, treating patients. Bob , " Mark Reese " <tcm2@e...> wrote: > Jim, > > I appreciate your thoughts, however having read many thoughts on HIV = this > or that in TCM and having treated many people over the years, I find that no > one theory covers everyone I see. Certainly I have seen a lot of shao yang > patterns. However, as Todd says, the heat which causes the insomnia does > seem to come from a variety of sources depending very much on the individual > and there situation. I do not use 5 phase very much in diagnosis, but I > suspect that the same would hold true for that system. > > Mark Reese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 pemachophel2001 wrote: > To me, one of the strong points of Chinese medicine as a system is > that it offers a number of different subsystems (following Chinese > precedents, I generally ennumerate 10) for describing patterns and, > therefore, treating patients. I'd be interested in hearing a little bit about each of the ten, Bob. For instance, when do you use Five Elements? When the issue is organ relationships? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 The 10 types of pattern discrimination used in Chinese medicine are covered in the Introduction section of just about every Distance Learning program I teach via Blue Poppy Institute. I believe I also talk about these in A Handbook of TCM Patterns & Their Treatments as well as the Introduction section of Philippe Sionneau's and my The Treatment of Modern Western Medical Diseases with . So I'm pretty much " on record " about all this. Briefly, these 10 types are (according to Prof. Shuai Xue-zhong of the Hunan College of ): 1. Eight principles pattern discrimination (ba gang bian zheng) 2. Five phases pattern discrimination (wu xing bian zheng) 3. Qi & blood pattern discrimination (qi xue bian zheng) 4. Fluids & humors pattern discrimination (jin ye bian zheng) 5. Viscera & bowels pattern discrimination (zang fu bian zheng) 6. Channels & network vessels pattern discrimination (jing luo bian zheng) 7. Disease cause pattern discrimination (bing yin bian zheng) 8. Six aspects pattern discrimination (liu fen bian zheng) 9. Four aspects pattern discrimination (si fen bian zheng) 10. Three burners pattern discrimination (san jiao bian zheng) Bob , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > > > pemachophel2001 wrote: > > > To me, one of the strong points of Chinese medicine as a system is > > that it offers a number of different subsystems (following Chinese > > precedents, I generally ennumerate 10) for describing patterns and, > > therefore, treating patients. > > I'd be interested in hearing a little bit about each of the ten, Bob. > > For instance, when do you use Five Elements? When the issue is organ relationships? > > -- > Al Stone L.Ac. > <AlStone@B...> > http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.