Guest guest Posted November 5, 2001 Report Share Posted November 5, 2001 z'ev wrote: >>While I can appreciate your views of Daoism, I don't buy this " Judeo-Christian " idea at all. It oversimplifies and lumps together two 'religions' that have similar origins but a very different development. There is no word for 'religion' in Hebrew. One lives one's Jewishness as a Jew, not following a creed. There is nothing in Judaism that is about belief. . . it is about action and deed primarily. I have always found resonances from Chinese culture in Jewish culture and visa versa. I don't think it is correct to blame the misconceptions of Chinese culture in the West on Judaism. << And the more I read translations of early Christian writings, the more like a Daoist Y'shua/Jesus appears. I agree, let's not get into bashing people's faith or cultural heritage here. ===== Robert Hayden, L.Ac. http://jabinet.net Find a job, post your resume. http://careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2001 Report Share Posted November 5, 2001 Z'ev and Robert, thank you both for making these points. They are well taken. Though the finer points how important "belief" is in to particular religions could be debated, here is not the place for it. Certainly, I had no intention of "bashing" of anyone's faith. My position was not to judge any religion but to judge and reject a definition of religion that is predicated on belief to the exclusion of those religions in which "faith" is not an issue. z'ev wrote:>>While I can appreciate your views of Daoism, I don'tbuy this "Judeo-Christian" idea at all. It oversimplifies andlumps together two 'religions' that have similar origins but a verydifferent development.There is no word for 'religion' in Hebrew. One livesone's Jewishness as a Jew, not following a creed. There is nothing inJudaism that is about belief. . . it is about action and deedprimarily.I have always found resonances from Chinese culture inJewish culture and visa versa.I don't think it is correct to blame themisconceptions of Chinese culture in the West on Judaism.<<And the more I read translations of early Christianwritings, the more like a Daoist Y'shua/Jesus appears.I agree, let's not get into bashing people's faith orcultural heritage here.=====Robert Hayden, L.Ac.http://jabinet.netDo You ?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.The Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2001 Report Share Posted November 5, 2001 faith >>>Lets not confuse faith with belief in god. When I say faith without evidence it as nothing to do with "God" Alon - Dean Militello Monday, November 05, 2001 7:59 AM Re: Digest Number 763 Z'ev and Robert, thank you both for making these points. They are well taken. Though the finer points how important "belief" is in to particular religions could be debated, here is not the place for it. Certainly, I had no intention of "bashing" of anyone's faith. My position was not to judge any religion but to judge and reject a definition of religion that is predicated on belief to the exclusion of those religions in which "faith" is not an issue. z'ev wrote:>>While I can appreciate your views of Daoism, I don'tbuy this "Judeo-Christian" idea at all. It oversimplifies andlumps together two 'religions' that have similar origins but a verydifferent development.There is no word for 'religion' in Hebrew. One livesone's Jewishness as a Jew, not following a creed. There is nothing inJudaism that is about belief. . . it is about action and deedprimarily.I have always found resonances from Chinese culture inJewish culture and visa versa.I don't think it is correct to blame themisconceptions of Chinese culture in the West on Judaism.<<And the more I read translations of early Christianwritings, the more like a Daoist Y'shua/Jesus appears.I agree, let's not get into bashing people's faith orcultural heritage here.=====Robert Hayden, L.Ac.http://jabinet.netDo You ?Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.The Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2001 Report Share Posted November 5, 2001 Dear Robert et al, A few hastily written comments about religion.. medicine. etc. I enjoyed your email/s and it has been useful to consider the " debate " .I am presently in Japan practicing Zen of the Soto sect.I also practice Hatha yoga and my primary practice is a Radical practice named Ruchira Avatara Bhakti Yoga.I am a qualified acupuncturist and shiatsu practitioner.Currently resting from clinical practice but keeping my finger to the pulse as much as possible. These are some comments about what I have read over the last couple of weeks from the Academy mails. I'm also thankful for the insights re case discussion. Which will be great to get into when I resume practice of TCM?WM?CCM?my personal synthesised style... M. All religious traditions form One Great Tradition. The tradition of man/woman kind in there seeking or non-seeking understanding of that which is True. All the great traditions have emphasised that practice was/is the key to Realisation and that the teaching...the Word.. is/was the means to the Way....a beginning...the first step and the reminder to the practitioners' lower level mind (verbal/intellectually discriminative mind)- while on the path- of what to do to keep " on track " and to create rememberance of descriptions and insight into That Which Is True and higher or Highest. I agree that one should not make direct comparisons between Middle Eastern and Eastern religions. Generally Middle Eastern religions express seperation between man and God and Eastern religions tend to see man as god-(when man has Realised God). And most forms of Buddhism deny deity altogether. However there are many similarities as well between traditions. We tend to read about religion and compare our perceptions with great teachers who had great realisation. When one practices on the path or the pathless ways--Way then one realises that True Realization is a very rare thing. One realises that one should be humbled by the Mystery and get on with the action of it all instead of constantly creating sectarianism and difference.When one really has understood... then.. one can lay down the law ( and I am not in that position myself..ho..ho) However paradoxically we create " difference " so we can understand at the intellectual/discriminative verbal mind level of our activity. As a professional actor for 15 years I learnt that every different rehearsal process created a different play.ie. a different result. The same too occurs with different religious traditions and though they form parts of the same Great Tradition they have different practices and therefore different realisations/outcomes. All these traditions must be respected.And it is only when true Tolerance and Cooperation occur that we will have Peace (and I am not an idealist) in this place we live.And it is only when we have true tolerance and cooperation that we will understand how different religious traditions relate to different levels of practice of spiritual/buddhic/mystical practice. In Taoism and Zen (which has some Taoist roots in some of its many schools) there is the Simple (the Tao) and the complicated (the ten thousand things). It is good not to get too bogged down in the turgid understanding of the ten thousand things (because it becomes a big...headache.) Medicine is what one utilises for the well being of the body mind structure however religion when it presumes no disease creates true health.Even when wracked with cancer Indian Yogic adepts have beamed there unproblemmatic happiness and realization.So it seems that the body mind structure is not the determinant essentially of realization or " Enlightenment " .And why are we hhear anway....to cure our constantly arising diseases...(I don't think so). And i say that as some one who has some pretty nasty pathogenic Qi eating away at my organs ...ho..ho..yeow!) This is an interesting delineation between Medicine and religion. Because some forms of religion in there teaching AND REALIZATION go beyond the limitations of the temporary body mind. This can be seen in the non dualistic practicing schools of Buddhism and Hinduism and even Taoism. It is important to note that medicine and religion have different reasons for their existence. They are as two bodies of knowledge and practice extant for different reasons. So one person in this series of emails I have read over the last week is quite correct when he says that " TCM is not a religion. " But all due respect to the medical practitioner who makes TCM a part of there religious practice.Why not? Medicine helps practioners of religion maintain equanimity so they can focus on the way that they practice.ie. A balanced Autonomic nervous system or balanced meridian system or balanced Zang Fu system will allow the practitioner to move to subtler practice or understand ordinary thins like how to walk and talk and think properly. This is only one way of describing the differentiation between religion and medicine. .. There needs to be tolerance between WM and TCM and whatever other terms one wishes to name different forms of medicine that often help people. I am a novice practitioner of medicine. I have found that all approaches give different skills and understandings and I try to take what is useful in any situation. I have noticed over the last week or so comments about TCM not being a religion. And it seems that " religion " has been seen as a negative notion. There is exoteric religion which is " talking school " non-practised religion and then there is the hard school of practiced religion which tends to be unspoken and shown in action.Not belief but present time realization or surrender with Faith.And acceptance of present Grace. What one submits ones attention/mind on/to is as a result what one worships.There is Reality and then there are man made " gods " . We men can make " gods " out of anything. The extreme Scientific Materialist doesn't feel God because he/she is always thinking and injuring that Spleen etc. The scientific materialist is like a cat that forgets the sun on its paw because it learns the words " It's the sun " .And one can make a god out of TCM too if one wants too.And then there are bods who mix these two possible descriptions/practices of health practice in different ratios. The prevailing ideology of this time is Scientific Materialism.And Scientific Materialism denies anything that cannot be proved or is Mysterious. Reality is Mysterious. Reality however we describe it or try to define it, still is extant. If one does not see the Mystery in Reality then one will reduce the feeling of love for the people one practices for in medicine or religion to a pile of statistics and tinkering with people as if they are grossly manifested mechanisms only. Reality is the God true practitioners of any faith worship.And ..again ..it is Indefinable..Mysterious. TCM acknowledges the existence of subtle energy- qi/ki The holistic pattern described in TCM acknowledges the total inter-relationship between the different " levels " of the body-mind system. This description of the body mind structure is ideologically in opposition to the modern prevailing Scientific Materialistic ideology that sees everything to be reducible to defined,proven by science and known matter.WM has had a habit of this Scientific materialistic approach. Whereas the adherents of TCM traditionally knew that " everything " could never be " known " or understood. Hence we leave our rational and intellectual mind aside when we have come to the point of feeling The Mystery of the Tao or projecting the Qi.After all the thinking we " do " the reality of the action is the actual affecting function. Scientific Materialism is a talking school generally. It defines " things " but many who define these things from a Scientific Materialistic point of view are not practitioners of the esoteric traditions. Esoteric means " hidden " . It is " hidden practice " because it is secret from those who do not practice. The Tao cannot be talked of in Truth. We can only but try. You can point to the moon but the moon is not the pointing finger. One can define Quantum physics and Light Theory as being the same as Eastern traditions---but there is a difference between intellectual endeavour and the action of actually doing practice and realizing non-intellectual understandings that are essentially beyond words. The delight of TCM is the true compassion in action that the practitioner actively expresses in his or her clinic. I am aware that there is value in delineating difference between WM TCM and CCM etc. But boundaries creat wars . So again Cooperation and Tolerance. I have found useful ness in different religious and medical traditions on my non-seeking path. This spirit of cooperation and tolerance needs to be emphasised. Not difference. And if someone does not understand there is no point beating them over the head with ones ideology. Silence is useful.The truths of TCM that are Mysterious and that help people must be protected. Because Scientific Materialism is not going away in a hurry! In fact it is moving towards destruction of the very planet we live on. So.. the paradox of difference and Tolerance and contradiction and Cooperation. -- robert hayden <kampo36 wrote: > z'ev wrote: > > >>While I can appreciate your views of Daoism, I > don't > buy this > " Judeo-Christian " idea at all. It oversimplifies > and > lumps together > two > 'religions' that have similar origins but a very > different development. > > There is no word for 'religion' in Hebrew. One > lives > one's Jewishness > as a Jew, not following a creed. There is nothing > in > Judaism that is > about belief. . . it is about action and deed > primarily. > > I have always found resonances from Chinese culture > in > Jewish culture > and visa versa. > > I don't think it is correct to blame the > misconceptions of Chinese > culture in the West on Judaism. > > > << > > And the more I read translations of early Christian > writings, the more like a Daoist Y'shua/Jesus > appears. > I agree, let's not get into bashing people's faith > or > cultural heritage here. > > > > ===== > Robert Hayden, L.Ac. > http://jabinet.net > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > http://careers. > Find a job, post your resume. http://careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 Generally Middle Eastern religions express seperationbetween man and God >>>Not in spiritual or kabalistic Judaism Alon - Frederick Court Monday, November 05, 2001 9:54 AM Re: Digest Number 763 Dear Robert et al,A few hastily written comments about religion..medicine. etc.I enjoyed your email/s and it has been useful toconsider the "debate".I am presently in Japanpracticing Zen of the Soto sect.I also practice Hathayoga and my primary practice is a Radical practicenamed Ruchira Avatara Bhakti Yoga.I am a qualifiedacupuncturist and shiatsu practitioner.Currentlyresting from clinical practice but keeping my fingerto the pulse as much as possible.These are some comments about what I have read overthe last couple of weeks from the Academy mails. I'malso thankful for the insights re case discussion.Which will be great to get into when I resume practiceof TCM?WM?CCM?my personal synthesised style... M.All religious traditions form One Great Tradition.The tradition of man/woman kind in there seeking ornon-seeking understanding of that which is True.All the great traditions have emphasised that practicewas/is the key to Realisation and that theteaching...the Word.. is/was the means to the Way....abeginning...the first step and the reminder to thepractitioners' lower level mind (verbal/intellectuallydiscriminative mind)- while on the path- of what to doto keep "on track" and to create rememberance ofdescriptions and insight into That Which Is True andhigher or Highest.I agree that one should not make direct comparisonsbetween Middle Eastern and Eastern religions.Generally Middle Eastern religions express seperationbetween man and God and Eastern religions tend to seeman as god-(when man has Realised God). And most formsof Buddhism deny deity altogether.However there are many similarities as well betweentraditions. We tend to read about religion and compare ourperceptions with great teachers who had greatrealisation. When one practices on the path or thepathless ways--Way then one realises that TrueRealization is a very rare thing. One realises thatone should be humbled by the Mystery and get on withthe action of it all instead of constantly creatingsectarianism and difference.When one really hasunderstood... then.. one can lay down the law ( and Iam not in that position myself..ho..ho)However paradoxically we create "difference" so we canunderstand at the intellectual/discriminative verbalmind level of our activity.As a professional actor for 15 years I learnt thatevery different rehearsal process created a differentplay.ie. a different result.The same too occurs with different religioustraditions and though they form parts of the sameGreat Tradition they have different practices andtherefore different realisations/outcomes.All these traditions must be respected.And it is onlywhen true Tolerance and Cooperation occur that we willhave Peace (and I am not an idealist) in this place welive.And it is only when we have true tolerance andcooperation that we will understand how differentreligious traditions relate to different levels ofpractice of spiritual/buddhic/mystical practice. In Taoism and Zen (which has some Taoist roots in someof its many schools) there is the Simple (the Tao) andthe complicated (the ten thousand things).It is good not to get too bogged down in the turgidunderstanding of the ten thousand things (because itbecomes a big...headache.)Medicine is what one utilises for the well being ofthe body mind structure however religion when itpresumes no disease creates true health.Even whenwracked with cancer Indian Yogic adepts have beamedthere unproblemmatic happiness and realization.So itseems that the body mind structure is not thedeterminant essentially of realization or"Enlightenment".And why are we hhear anway....to cureour constantly arising diseases...(I don't think so).And i say that as some one who has some pretty nastypathogenic Qi eating away at my organs ..ho..ho..yeow!) This is an interesting delineationbetween Medicine and religion. Because some forms ofreligion in there teaching AND REALIZATION go beyondthe limitations of the temporary body mind. This canbe seen in the non dualistic practicing schools ofBuddhism and Hinduism and even Taoism.It is important to note that medicine and religionhave different reasons for their existence. They areas two bodies of knowledge and practice extant fordifferent reasons.So one person in this series of emails I have readover the last week is quite correct when he says that"TCM is not a religion."But all due respect to themedical practitioner who makes TCM a part of therereligious practice.Why not? Medicine helps practioners of religion maintainequanimity so they can focus on the way that theypractice.ie. A balanced Autonomic nervous system orbalanced meridian system or balanced Zang Fu systemwill allow the practitioner to move to subtlerpractice or understand ordinary thins like how to walkand talk and think properly. This is only one way ofdescribing the differentiation between religion andmedicine..There needs to be tolerance between WM and TCM andwhatever other terms one wishes to name differentforms of medicine that often help people.I am a novice practitioner of medicine. I have foundthat all approaches give different skills andunderstandings and I try to take what is useful in anysituation. I have noticed over the last week or so comments aboutTCM not being a religion. And it seems that "religion"has been seen as a negative notion.There is exoteric religion which is "talking school"non-practised religion and then there is the hardschool of practiced religion which tends to beunspokenand shown in action.Not belief but present timerealization or surrender with Faith.And acceptance ofpresent Grace.What one submits ones attention/mind on/to is as aresult what one worships.There is Reality and thenthere are man made "gods". We men can make "gods" outof anything.The extreme Scientific Materialist doesn't feel Godbecause he/she is always thinking and injuring thatSpleen etc. The scientific materialist is like a catthat forgets the sun on its paw because it learns thewords "It's the sun".And one can make a god out of TCMtoo if one wants too.And then there are bods who mixthese two possible descriptions/practices of healthpractice in different ratios. The prevailing ideology of this time is ScientificMaterialism.And Scientific Materialism denies anythingthat cannot be proved or is Mysterious. Reality is Mysterious. Reality however we describe it or try to define it,still is extant. If one does not see the Mystery in Reality then onewill reduce the feeling of love for the people onepractices for in medicine or religion to a pile ofstatistics and tinkering with people as if they aregrossly manifested mechanisms only.Reality is the God true practitioners of any faithworship.And ..again ..it is Indefinable..Mysterious.TCM acknowledges the existence of subtle energy- qi/kiThe holistic pattern described in TCM acknowledges the total inter-relationship between thedifferent "levels" of the body-mind system. Thisdescription of the body mind structure isideologically in opposition to the modern prevailingScientific Materialistic ideology that sees everythingto be reducible to defined,proven by science and knownmatter.WM has had a habit of this Scientificmaterialistic approach. Whereas the adherents of TCM traditionally knew that"everything" could never be "known" or understood.Hence we leave our rational and intellectual mindaside when we have come to the point of feeling TheMystery of the Tao or projecting the Qi.After all thethinking we "do" the reality of the action is theactual affecting function. Scientific Materialism is a talking school generally.It defines "things" but many who define these thingsfrom a Scientific Materialistic point of view are notpractitioners of the esoteric traditions.Esoteric means "hidden". It is "hidden practice"because it is secret from those who do not practice. The Tao cannot be talked of in Truth.We can only but try.You can point to the moon but the moon is not thepointing finger.One can define Quantum physics and Light Theory asbeing the same as Eastern traditions---but there is adifference between intellectual endeavour and theaction of actually doing practice and realizingnon-intellectual understandings that are essentiallybeyond words.The delight of TCM is the true compassion in actionthat the practitioner actively expresses in his or herclinic.I am aware that there is value in delineatingdifference between WM TCM and CCM etc.But boundaries creat wars . So again Cooperation andTolerance.I have found useful ness in different religious andmedical traditions on my non-seeking path. This spiritof cooperation and tolerance needs to be emphasised.Not difference.And if someone does not understand there is no pointbeating them over the head with ones ideology. Silenceis useful.The truths of TCM that are Mysterious andthat help people must be protected. Because Scientific Materialism is not going away in ahurry! In fact it is moving towards destruction of thevery planet we live on.So.. the paradox of difference and Tolerance andcontradiction and Cooperation.-- robert hayden <kampo36 wrote:> z'ev wrote:> > >>While I can appreciate your views of Daoism, I> don't> buy this > "Judeo-Christian" idea at all. It oversimplifies> and> lumps together > two > 'religions' that have similar origins but a very> different development.> > There is no word for 'religion' in Hebrew. One> lives> one's Jewishness > as a Jew, not following a creed. There is nothing> in> Judaism that is > about belief. . . it is about action and deed> primarily.> > I have always found resonances from Chinese culture> in> Jewish culture > and visa versa.> > I don't think it is correct to blame the> misconceptions of Chinese > culture in the West on Judaism.> > > <<> > And the more I read translations of early Christian> writings, the more like a Daoist Y'shua/Jesus> appears.> I agree, let's not get into bashing people's faith> or> cultural heritage here.> > > > =====> Robert Hayden, L.Ac.> http://jabinet.net> > > > Find a job, post your resume.> http://careers.> Find a job, post your resume.http://careers.The Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2001 Report Share Posted November 6, 2001 Thank You! - " Frederick Court " <fwrcourt Monday, November 05, 2001 12:54 PM Re: Digest Number 763 > Dear Robert et al, > > A few hastily written comments about religion.. > medicine. etc. > > I enjoyed your email/s and it has been useful to > consider the " debate " .I am presently in Japan > practicing Zen of the Soto sect.I also practice Hatha > yoga and my primary practice is a Radical practice > named Ruchira Avatara Bhakti Yoga.I am a qualified > acupuncturist and shiatsu practitioner.Currently > resting from clinical practice but keeping my finger > to the pulse as much as possible. > > These are some comments about what I have read over > the last couple of weeks from the Academy mails. I'm > also thankful for the insights re case discussion. > Which will be great to get into when I resume practice > of TCM?WM?CCM?my personal synthesised style... M. > > All religious traditions form One Great Tradition. > The tradition of man/woman kind in there seeking or > non-seeking understanding of that which is True. > > All the great traditions have emphasised that practice > was/is the key to Realisation and that the > teaching...the Word.. is/was the means to the Way....a > beginning...the first step and the reminder to the > practitioners' lower level mind (verbal/intellectually > discriminative mind)- while on the path- of what to do > to keep " on track " and to create rememberance of > descriptions and insight into That Which Is True and > higher or Highest. > > I agree that one should not make direct comparisons > between Middle Eastern and Eastern religions. > Generally Middle Eastern religions express seperation > between man and God and Eastern religions tend to see > man as god-(when man has Realised God). And most forms > of Buddhism deny deity altogether. > > However there are many similarities as well between > traditions. > > We tend to read about religion and compare our > perceptions with great teachers who had great > realisation. When one practices on the path or the > pathless ways--Way then one realises that True > Realization is a very rare thing. One realises that > one should be humbled by the Mystery and get on with > the action of it all instead of constantly creating > sectarianism and difference.When one really has > understood... then.. one can lay down the law ( and I > am not in that position myself..ho..ho) > > However paradoxically we create " difference " so we can > understand at the intellectual/discriminative verbal > mind level of our activity. > > As a professional actor for 15 years I learnt that > every different rehearsal process created a different > play.ie. a different result. > > The same too occurs with different religious > traditions and though they form parts of the same > Great Tradition they have different practices and > therefore different realisations/outcomes. > > All these traditions must be respected.And it is only > when true Tolerance and Cooperation occur that we will > have Peace (and I am not an idealist) in this place we > live.And it is only when we have true tolerance and > cooperation that we will understand how different > religious traditions relate to different levels of > practice of spiritual/buddhic/mystical practice. > > In Taoism and Zen (which has some Taoist roots in some > of its many schools) there is the Simple (the Tao) and > the complicated (the ten thousand things). > > It is good not to get too bogged down in the turgid > understanding of the ten thousand things (because it > becomes a big...headache.) > > Medicine is what one utilises for the well being of > the body mind structure however religion when it > presumes no disease creates true health.Even when > wracked with cancer Indian Yogic adepts have beamed > there unproblemmatic happiness and realization.So it > seems that the body mind structure is not the > determinant essentially of realization or > " Enlightenment " .And why are we hhear anway....to cure > our constantly arising diseases...(I don't think so). > And i say that as some one who has some pretty nasty > pathogenic Qi eating away at my organs > ..ho..ho..yeow!) This is an interesting delineation > between Medicine and religion. Because some forms of > religion in there teaching AND REALIZATION go beyond > the limitations of the temporary body mind. This can > be seen in the non dualistic practicing schools of > Buddhism and Hinduism and even Taoism. > > It is important to note that medicine and religion > have different reasons for their existence. They are > as two bodies of knowledge and practice extant for > different reasons. > > So one person in this series of emails I have read > over the last week is quite correct when he says that > " TCM is not a religion. " But all due respect to the > medical practitioner who makes TCM a part of there > religious practice.Why not? > > Medicine helps practioners of religion maintain > equanimity so they can focus on the way that they > practice.ie. A balanced Autonomic nervous system or > balanced meridian system or balanced Zang Fu system > will allow the practitioner to move to subtler > practice or understand ordinary thins like how to walk > and talk and think properly. This is only one way of > describing the differentiation between religion and > medicine. > . > > There needs to be tolerance between WM and TCM and > whatever other terms one wishes to name different > forms of medicine that often help people. > > I am a novice practitioner of medicine. I have found > that all approaches give different skills and > understandings and I try to take what is useful in any > situation. > > I have noticed over the last week or so comments about > > TCM not being a religion. And it seems that " religion " > has been seen as a negative notion. > > There is exoteric religion which is " talking school " > non-practised religion and then there is the hard > school of practiced religion which tends to be > unspoken > and shown in action.Not belief but present time > realization or surrender with Faith.And acceptance of > present Grace. > > What one submits ones attention/mind on/to is as a > result what one worships.There is Reality and then > there are man made " gods " . We men can make " gods " out > of anything. > > The extreme Scientific Materialist doesn't feel God > because he/she is always thinking and injuring that > Spleen etc. The scientific materialist is like a cat > that forgets the sun on its paw because it learns the > words " It's the sun " .And one can make a god out of TCM > too if one wants too.And then there are bods who mix > these two possible descriptions/practices of health > practice in different ratios. > > The prevailing ideology of this time is Scientific > Materialism.And Scientific Materialism denies anything > that cannot be proved or is Mysterious. > > Reality is Mysterious. > > Reality however we describe it or try to define it, > still is extant. > > If one does not see the Mystery in Reality then one > will reduce the feeling of love for the people one > practices for in medicine or religion to a pile of > statistics and tinkering with people as if they are > grossly manifested mechanisms only. > > Reality is the God true practitioners of any faith > worship.And ..again ..it is Indefinable..Mysterious. > > > > TCM acknowledges the existence of subtle energy- qi/ki > The holistic pattern described in TCM > acknowledges the total inter-relationship between the > different " levels " of the body-mind system. This > description of the body mind structure is > ideologically in opposition to the modern prevailing > Scientific Materialistic ideology that sees everything > to be reducible to defined,proven by science and known > matter.WM has had a habit of this Scientific > materialistic approach. > > Whereas the adherents of TCM traditionally knew that > " everything " could never be " known " or understood. > Hence we leave our rational and intellectual mind > aside when we have come to the point of feeling The > Mystery of the Tao or projecting the Qi.After all the > thinking we " do " the reality of the action is the > actual affecting function. > > Scientific Materialism is a talking school generally. > It defines " things " but many who define these things > from a Scientific Materialistic point of view are not > practitioners of the esoteric traditions. > Esoteric means " hidden " . It is " hidden practice " > because it is secret from those who do not practice. > > The Tao cannot be talked of in Truth. > We can only but try. > You can point to the moon but the moon is not the > pointing finger. > > One can define Quantum physics and Light Theory as > being the same as Eastern traditions---but there is a > difference between intellectual endeavour and the > action of actually doing practice and realizing > non-intellectual understandings that are essentially > beyond words. > > The delight of TCM is the true compassion in action > that the practitioner actively expresses in his or her > clinic. > I am aware that there is value in delineating > difference between WM TCM and CCM etc. > But boundaries creat wars . So again Cooperation and > Tolerance. > > I have found useful ness in different religious and > medical traditions on my non-seeking path. This spirit > of cooperation and tolerance needs to be emphasised. > Not difference. > > And if someone does not understand there is no point > beating them over the head with ones ideology. Silence > is useful.The truths of TCM that are Mysterious and > that help people must be protected. > > Because Scientific Materialism is not going away in a > hurry! In fact it is moving towards destruction of the > very planet we live on. > > So.. the paradox of difference and Tolerance and > contradiction and Cooperation. > > -- robert hayden <kampo36 wrote: > > z'ev wrote: > > > > >>While I can appreciate your views of Daoism, I > > don't > > buy this > > " Judeo-Christian " idea at all. It oversimplifies > > and > > lumps together > > two > > 'religions' that have similar origins but a very > > different development. > > > > There is no word for 'religion' in Hebrew. One > > lives > > one's Jewishness > > as a Jew, not following a creed. There is nothing > > in > > Judaism that is > > about belief. . . it is about action and deed > > primarily. > > > > I have always found resonances from Chinese culture > > in > > Jewish culture > > and visa versa. > > > > I don't think it is correct to blame the > > misconceptions of Chinese > > culture in the West on Judaism. > > > > > > << > > > > And the more I read translations of early Christian > > writings, the more like a Daoist Y'shua/Jesus > > appears. > > I agree, let's not get into bashing people's faith > > or > > cultural heritage here. > > > > > > > > ===== > > Robert Hayden, L.Ac. > > http://jabinet.net > > > > > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > > http://careers. > > > > > > > > > Find a job, post your resume. > http://careers. > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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