Guest guest Posted November 15, 2001 Report Share Posted November 15, 2001 With previous discussions debating whether or not TCM supports the idea of a healing crisis, I just wanted to mention a line from the SHL (#101). After one has given X.C.H.T. …“There will be steaming and quivering, then heat effusion and sweating again, by which the disease resolves.” It clearly demonstrates an increase in symptoms (getting worse before better) due to the body getting stronger and the battle becoming more intense, fighting harder to outhrow the pathogen. Were there other classic references that we mentioned at one time, or that others know of…? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2001 Report Share Posted November 15, 2001 , " " <@o...> wrote: > With previous discussions debating whether or not TCM supports the idea > of a healing crisis, I just wanted to mention a line from the SHL > (#101). After one has given X.C.H.T. . " There will be steaming and > quivering, then heat effusion and sweating again, by which the disease > resolves. " It clearly demonstrates an increase in symptoms (getting > worse before better) due to the body getting stronger and the battle > becoming more intense, fighting harder to outhrow the pathogen. Were > there other classic references that we mentioned at one time, or that > others know of.? > > - It is one thing to see such a reversal of sx in an acute condition which is what that clause refers to. Many people use the concept in reference to chronic conditions. Bob Flaws, you have mentioned the herxheimer's reaction in candida cases which apparently is a type of healing crisis. However I am curious if the chinese literature describes this phenomena in chronic cases of chong or gu or anything else. Robert Svoboda writing about ayurveda states that healing crises are undesirable and the result of improper therapy. While ayurveda uses purging and enemas, measures are taken to expel circulating toxins slowly and thus avoid the " crisis " . I think crises occur when the therapy causes the body to use routes of elimination like the skin because the kidneys and liver (western organs here) are not up to the task. However, if the liver and kidneys are functioning properly due to a balanced zang fu therapy, then the crisis does not occur. I think this is why things like colonics and fasting induce crises. they cleanse, but do not tonify and thus only one aspect of the mutually engendering pathomechanisms is addressed leading to side effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2001 Report Share Posted November 15, 2001 One of the definitions of Chinese words with which many Westerners have become familiar is the word " crisis, " wei2 ji1 in Chinese. The two Chinese characters mean " danger " and " opportunity " respectively. If you understand healing crisis in this fundamental sense, then it is hard to argue that traditional medicine in China has neglected this fundamentally important aspect of medical intervention, namely alerting the patient to both the danger and the opportunity of the crisis of the illness or injury. The path to wholeness lies along the road that will bring the patient to deal effectively with the former while seizing the latter. The manifestations of such changes in awareness, attitude and action (as well as reaction) on the part of the patient are as individual as everything else about the patient. Personally, I always counsel patients to be alert for apparently " adverse " reactions to any form of therapy and to take advantage of situations that at first appear disadvantageous. It seems to me that this is one of the greatest strengths of the traditional approach to medicine in China. Perhaps this way of thinking is unique to the traditions of a number of doctors who were also martial artists, notably practitioners of tai4 ji2. But I think it is germane to the discussion of the healing crisis. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2001 Report Share Posted November 17, 2001 Perhaps this way of thinking is unique to the traditions of a number of doctors who were also martial artists, notably practitioners of tai4 ji2. Ken, can you elaborate on this? I find it curious and germane to this discussion of 'healing crisis.' Frances yulong wrote: One of the definitions of Chinese words with which many Westerners have become familiar is the word "crisis," wei2 ji1 in Chinese. The two Chinese characters mean "danger" and "opportunity" respectively. If you understand healing crisis in this fundamental sense, then it is hard to argue that traditional medicine in China has neglected this fundamentally important aspect of medical intervention, namely alerting the patient to both the danger and the opportunity of the crisis of the illness or injury. The path to wholeness lies along the road that will bring the patient to deal effectively with the former while seizing the latter. The manifestations of such changes in awareness, attitude and action (as well as reaction) on the part of the patient are as individual as everything else about the patient. Personally, I always counsel patients to be alert for apparently "adverse" reactions to any form of therapy and to take advantage of situations that at first appear disadvantageous. It seems to me that this is one of the greatest strengths of the traditional approach to medicine in China. Perhaps this way of thinking is unique to the traditions of a number of doctors who were also martial artists, notably practitioners of tai4 ji2. But I think it is germane to the discussion of the healing crisis. Ken Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2001 Report Share Posted November 18, 2001 Frances, , Frances Gander <fgander@c...> wrote: > > Perhaps this way of thinking is unique > > to the traditions of a number of doctors > > who were also martial artists, notably > > practitioners of tai4 ji2. > > > Ken, can you elaborate on this? I find it curious and germane to this > discussion of 'healing crisis.' What I meant is that viewing disease as an opportunity may not be a widespread attitude among practitioners of Chinese medicine, either here or in China. I developed this attitude largely from the teachers I've had, many of whom are also martial artists. I mention tai4 ji2 in this regard because it includes this idea of taking advantage of the disadvantageous. This of course stems directly from Daoist sources, which can be cited at length. The appearance of symptoms, which is generally the first point at which most people recognize that they are sick, can be seen as the onset of a disease or it can be understood as the opening up of a window in which we can see patterns of imbalance which have probably plagued the patient for a long time. Many people pay little attention to their bodies and minds until and unless they cease to function in their habitual modes. This, in and of itself, is a kind of longterm disease. And therefore any illness can be seen as an opportunity to interrupt the routine ignorance of the body/mind with a penetrating look to find out what has gone wrong. To me, this conforms to that principle in the Nei Jing to treat patients before they get sick. In order to do this, I think the patient has to take control of their life in a way that can overcome the habitual patterns and return to a more harmonious way of living. What we call disease is thus an opportunity for this process of returning to begin. The Chinese have long used martial metaphors to describe the functions and structures of the body. And prior to their use in medical texts, the terms shi2 and xu1 were used by Sun Zi to discuss battlefield circumstancs. The tai4 ji2 classics tell us that every place in the body has the same shi2 and xu1. This is the kind of thinking that I was referring to. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 Ken, Thank you for your elucidation. I agree that this way of viewing disease [as opportunity] is not widespread among modern practitioners of chinese medicine. What I meant is that viewing disease as an opportunity may not be a widespread attitude among practitioners of Chinese medicine, either here or in China. I developed this attitude largely from the teachers I've had, many of whom are also martial artists. In my experience, most of my martial arts teachers were/are doctors, but--to my disappointment--I have not found my chinese medicine teachers to be students of the martial arts. I have studied only in the U.S., with chinese and caucasian teachers, respectively. So I look into my taiji experience and studies for deeper meanings in my clinical work. I mention tai4 ji2 in this regard because it includes this idea of taking advantage of the disadvantageous. This of course stems directly from Daoist sources, which can be cited at length. Yes, certainly in tai ji tou shou, one takes another's disadvantage and transforms it into an advantage, or a change into another direction. And therefore any illness can be seen as an opportunity to interrupt the routine ignorance of the body/mind with a penetrating look to find out what has gone wrong. And, why it went wrong when it did, why an illness happened at a particular point in a person's life. There may be a deeper symbolism and synchronicity to the time in one's life that a disease surfaces. Frances yulong wrote: Frances, , Frances Gander <fgander@c...> wrote: > > Perhaps this way of thinking is unique > > to the traditions of a number of doctors > > who were also martial artists, notably > > practitioners of tai4 ji2. > > > Ken, can you elaborate on this? I find it curious and germane to this > discussion of 'healing crisis.' What I meant is that viewing disease as an opportunity may not be a widespread attitude among practitioners of Chinese medicine, either here or in China. I developed this attitude largely from the teachers I've had, many of whom are also martial artists. I mention tai4 ji2 in this regard because it includes this idea of taking advantage of the disadvantageous. This of course stems directly from Daoist sources, which can be cited at length. The appearance of symptoms, which is generally the first point at which most people recognize that they are sick, can be seen as the onset of a disease or it can be understood as the opening up of a window in which we can see patterns of imbalance which have probably plagued the patient for a long time. Many people pay little attention to their bodies and minds until and unless they cease to function in their habitual modes. This, in and of itself, is a kind of longterm disease. And therefore any illness can be seen as an opportunity to interrupt the routine ignorance of the body/mind with a penetrating look to find out what has gone wrong. To me, this conforms to that principle in the Nei Jing to treat patients before they get sick. In order to do this, I think the patient has to take control of their life in a way that can overcome the habitual patterns and return to a more harmonious way of living. What we call disease is thus an opportunity for this process of returning to begin. The Chinese have long used martial metaphors to describe the functions and structures of the body. And prior to their use in medical texts, the terms shi2 and xu1 were used by Sun Zi to discuss battlefield circumstancs. The tai4 ji2 classics tell us that every place in the body has the same shi2 and xu1. This is the kind of thinking that I was referring to. Ken Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2001 Report Share Posted November 20, 2001 Frances, > > Thank you for your elucidation. I agree that this way of viewing > disease [as opportunity] is not widespread among modern practitioners of > chinese medicine. Why do you reckon this is? I'm just curious. > > > What I meant is that viewing disease > > as an opportunity may not be a widespread > > attitude among practitioners of Chinese > > medicine, either here or in China. I > > developed this attitude largely from > > the teachers I've had, many of whom are > > also martial artists. > > > In my experience, most of my martial arts teachers were/are doctors, > but--to my disappointment--I have not found my chinese medicine teachers > to be students of the martial arts. I have studied only in the U.S., > with chinese and caucasian teachers, respectively. So I look into my > taiji experience and studies for deeper meanings in my clinical work. It's certainly a good place to look. Are you familiar with the writings of Zheng Man Qing (Cheng Man Ching)? His rather short essays on various aspects of medicine and tai4 ji2 are enlightening. > > > I mention tai4 ji2 in this regard because > > it includes this idea of taking advantage > > of the disadvantageous. This of course > > stems directly from Daoist sources, which > > can be cited at length. > > > > Yes, certainly in tai ji tou shou, one takes another's disadvantage and > transforms it into an advantage, or a change into another direction. > And when you think about it, that's what a good doctor does as well, eh? And the best doctors teach their patients how to do it themselves. > > And therefore any illness can be seen as > > an opportunity to interrupt the routine > > ignorance of the body/mind with a penetrating > > look to find out what has gone wrong. > > > And, why it went wrong when it did, why an illness happened at a > particular point in a person's life. There may be a deeper symbolism > and synchronicity to the time in one's life that a disease surfaces. > I can't really talk about this subject without frequently referring to Prof. Zheng. He called his tai4 ji2 school Correct Timing, and it is certainly one of the premier skills of both accomplished doctors and boxers that they can discern the right moment for action and stillness. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your query. I have been in S.F. teaching. In any case, to answer your question, I have not found much in the way of Chinese discussions of or even acknowledgement of the homeopathic/naturopathic concept of a healing crisis in the sense that this concept is defined within that tradition. It is something I have been keeping my eyes open for for a number of years now. Nor have I found much in the way of Chinese acknowledgement of Herxheimer reactions. The one place I have found something that looks like it might be a reference to such an event vis a vis gu zheng is in the Chinese discussions of bai he bing, lily disease. From as far back as Zhang Zhong-jing's Jin Gui Yao Lue, one of the definitions of a lily disease is that the patient vomits back up the meds which otherwise appear to fit their pattern. The classical solution to this is the administration of formulas containing Bulbus Lilii (Bai He). This is interesting since, according to Heiner's description of gu zheng therapy, gu zheng Rxs typically contain yin-supplementing medicinals (especially heart-lung-stomach yin supplements). For some time now I have been wondering if the description of the seeming medicinal intolerance of bai he bing patients is not a reference to Herxheimer reactions. Since bai he bing patients are anxious and restless and one of the main disease mechanisms of anxiety and restlessness is evil heat harassing the heart, it seems likely that previous formulas used to treat these symptoms might have contained bitter, cold heat-clearing meds such as Rhizoma Coptidis Chinensis (Huang Lian) which can most definitely cause a Herxheimer reaction. There is yet another phenomenon which makes me think that Herxheimer reactions are not a well known phenomenon within Chinese medicine. I'm sure that you, like me, have heard Chinese doctors from China saying that Americans cannot stomach Chinese herbs. Over the years, I've heard this from any number of recent arrivals. They say that, when they have given Americans Chinese meds seemingly appropriate for their patterns, the Americans vomit and/or get diarrhea. More than one such Chinese doctor has then gone on to tell me that he or she has stopped giving Chinese meds to American patients, preferring to rely entirely on acupuncture. My reading of this situation, based on my own experience as a Chinese doctor treating American patients, is that, in all probablity, these patients had Herxheimer reactions which these Chinese doctors did not recognize as such. At least this has been my experience when dealing with seemingly similar occurences. Not having read the entire contents of this thread, I don't know if anything I've said above hits the mark, but this at least is my experience and the state of my research and thought on this issue at the moment. Bob , @i... wrote: > , " " <@o...> wrote: > > With previous discussions debating whether or not TCM supports the idea > > of a healing crisis, I just wanted to mention a line from the SHL > > (#101). After one has given X.C.H.T. . " There will be steaming and > > quivering, then heat effusion and sweating again, by which the disease > > resolves. " It clearly demonstrates an increase in symptoms (getting > > worse before better) due to the body getting stronger and the battle > > becoming more intense, fighting harder to outhrow the pathogen. Were > > there other classic references that we mentioned at one time, or that > > others know of.? > > > > - > > It is one thing to see such a reversal of sx in an acute condition > which is what that clause refers to. Many people use the concept in > reference to chronic conditions. Bob Flaws, you have mentioned the > herxheimer's reaction in candida cases which apparently is a type of > healing crisis. However I am curious if the chinese literature > describes this phenomena in chronic cases of chong or gu or anything > else. Robert Svoboda writing about ayurveda states that healing crises > are undesirable and the result of improper therapy. While ayurveda > uses purging and enemas, measures are taken to expel circulating toxins > slowly and thus avoid the " crisis " . I think crises occur when the > therapy causes the body to use routes of elimination like the skin > because the kidneys and liver (western organs here) are not up to the > task. However, if the liver and kidneys are functioning properly due > to a balanced zang fu therapy, then the crisis does not occur. I think > this is why things like colonics and fasting induce crises. they > cleanse, but do not tonify and thus only one aspect of the mutually > engendering pathomechanisms is addressed leading to side effects. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2001 Report Share Posted November 21, 2001 , pemachophel2001 wrote: I'm > sure that you, like me, have heard Chinese doctors from China saying > that Americans cannot stomach Chinese herbs. Over the years, I've > heard this from any number of recent arrivals. They say that, when > they have given Americans Chinese meds seemingly appropriate for their > patterns, the Americans vomit and/or get diarrhea. More than one such > Chinese doctor has then gone on to tell me that he or she has stopped > giving Chinese meds to American patients, preferring to rely entirely > on acupuncture. My reading of this situation, based on my own > experience as a Chinese doctor treating American patients, is that, in > all probablity, these patients had Herxheimer reactions which these > Chinese doctors did not recognize as such. Interesting. I have also heard many chinese doctors say this, though the typical response I see is that they use much lower dosages with american patients to avoid reactions. The net result is that they do not get adequate short term relief for their patients, who then refuse to comply with raw herbs or even granules. Even guohui liu in the new Warm disease book makes this statement about dose, claiming americans are hypersensitive, pehaps because they are not used to taking herbs. this makes little sense to me as americans are quite used to taking strong drugs. He also suggests that the chinese export the best herbs so they have to use higher dosage of low quality herbs in the PRC. this was contradicted by Paul Unschuld who told me, on the contrary, the Chinese reserve the best herbs for themselves and export lower quality to all but the most discerning customers. So this herxheimer's idea has some merit. I have never had to resort to low dosages, nor does Heiner. But both of us have always attended closely to the issue of candida and thus work with the patient to ride this through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 Even guohui liu in the new Warm disease book makes this statement about dose, claiming americans are hypersensitive, pehaps because they are not used to taking herbs. this makes little sense to me as Americans are quite used to taking strong drugs. He also suggests that the Chinese export the best herbs so they have to use higher dosage of low quality herbs in the PRC. this was contradicted by Paul Unschuld who told me, on the contrary, the Chinese reserve the best herbs for themselves and export lower >>>>>>There may be genetic differences. For example Chinese often need lower doses of western pharmaceuticals. This is a well known fact. As for quality of herbs, I think anybody that worked in a Chinese hospital and checked the quality of herbs against what we see here in the west can testify to the lower quality. I do not think Paul Unschuld is qualified to judge quality of herbs Alon - Wednesday, November 21, 2001 11:00 PM Re: Healing Crisis... , pemachophel2001 wrote:I'm > sure that you, like me, have heard Chinese doctors from China saying > that Americans cannot stomach Chinese herbs. Over the years, I've > heard this from any number of recent arrivals. They say that, when > they have given Americans Chinese meds seemingly appropriate for their > patterns, the Americans vomit and/or get diarrhea. More than one such > Chinese doctor has then gone on to tell me that he or she has stopped > giving Chinese meds to American patients, preferring to rely entirely > on acupuncture. My reading of this situation, based on my own > experience as a Chinese doctor treating American patients, is that, in > all probablity, these patients had Herxheimer reactions which these > Chinese doctors did not recognize as such.Interesting. I have also heard many chinese doctors say this, though the typical response I see is that they use much lower dosages with american patients to avoid reactions. The net result is that they do not get adequate short term relief for their patients, who then refuse to comply with raw herbs or even granules. Even guohui liu in the new Warm disease book makes this statement about dose, claiming americans are hypersensitive, pehaps because they are not used to taking herbs. this makes little sense to me as americans are quite used to taking strong drugs. He also suggests that the chinese export the best herbs so they have to use higher dosage of low quality herbs in the PRC. this was contradicted by Paul Unschuld who told me, on the contrary, the Chinese reserve the best herbs for themselves and export lower quality to all but the most discerning customers. So this herxheimer's idea has some merit. I have never had to resort to low dosages, nor does Heiner. But both of us have always attended closely to the issue of candida and thus work with the patient to ride this through.ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > >>>>>>There may be genetic differences. For example Chinese often need lower doses of western pharmaceuticals. then they should need lower doses of herbs, too. I do not think Paul Unschuld is qualified to judge quality of herbs > Alon Why not? He has consulted with German companies and universities on issues of determining herb purity and potency for over 30 years. He has been to China dozens of times, much of that spent in chinese hospitals and pharmacies. I am sure he is as qualified as you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 then they should need lower doses of herbs, t>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>Apparently not. And we should also consider that in most old texts the dose is very small. May be there is some kind of genetic memory. But it is a very well known fact that Asians need smaller doses of many meds. I thought he is a historian? Alon - Thursday, November 22, 2001 9:00 PM Re: Healing Crisis... , "Alon Marcus" <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:> >>>>>>There may be genetic differences. For example Chinese often need lower doses of western pharmaceuticals.then they should need lower doses of herbs, too.I do not think Paul Unschuld is qualified to judge quality of herbs> AlonWhy not? He has consulted with German companies and universities on issues of determining herb purity and potency for over 30 years. He has been to China dozens of times, much of that spent in chinese hospitals and pharmacies. I am sure he is as qualified as you are.ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 I too have heard from Chinese that the Chinese export the best grades of meds overseas for hard currency. Whatever the case may be, for the last 10 years or so, I have stuck to the dosages considered standard in the PRC and get better results than when I used lesser dosages. I do not find American patients " hypersensitive " to Chinese meds, if you factor out the occasional Herxheimer reaction. I am still of the opinion that the Herxheimer reaction is an important phenomenon to consider when treating with bitter, cold, heat-clearing meds, and, at least in my experience, is not a phenomenon with which any of the Chinese doctors I am familar with seem to be aware of. Bob , @i... wrote: > , pemachophel2001 wrote: > I'm > > sure that you, like me, have heard Chinese doctors from China saying > > that Americans cannot stomach Chinese herbs. Over the years, I've > > heard this from any number of recent arrivals. They say that, when > > they have given Americans Chinese meds seemingly appropriate for their > > patterns, the Americans vomit and/or get diarrhea. More than one such > > Chinese doctor has then gone on to tell me that he or she has stopped > > giving Chinese meds to American patients, preferring to rely entirely > > on acupuncture. My reading of this situation, based on my own > > experience as a Chinese doctor treating American patients, is that, in > > all probablity, these patients had Herxheimer reactions which these > > Chinese doctors did not recognize as such. > > Interesting. I have also heard many chinese doctors say this, though > the typical response I see is that they use much lower dosages with > american patients to avoid reactions. The net result is that they do > not get adequate short term relief for their patients, who then refuse > to comply with raw herbs or even granules. Even guohui liu in the new > Warm disease book makes this statement about dose, claiming americans > are hypersensitive, pehaps because they are not used to taking herbs. > this makes little sense to me as americans are quite used to taking > strong drugs. He also suggests that the chinese export the best herbs > so they have to use higher dosage of low quality herbs in the PRC. > this was contradicted by Paul Unschuld who told me, on the contrary, > the Chinese reserve the best herbs for themselves and export lower > quality to all but the most discerning customers. So this herxheimer's > idea has some merit. I have never had to resort to low dosages, nor > does Heiner. But both of us have always attended closely to the issue > of candida and thus work with the patient to ride this through. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 , pemachophel2001 wrote: > > > I too have heard from Chinese that the Chinese export the best grades > of meds overseas for hard currency. I have heard that, too, though in hindsight I am not sure my source was accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 I have heard that, too, though in hindsight I am not sure my source was accurate >>>>Again all you need to see is what they use in hospitals and I did. Much lower grades. The huang Qi was the grade that is sold as food in china town here. Alon - Friday, November 23, 2001 7:12 PM Re: Healing Crisis... , pemachophel2001 wrote:> > > I too have heard from Chinese that the Chinese export the best grades > of meds overseas for hard currency.I have heard that, too, though in hindsight I am not sure my source was accurate.ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2001 Report Share Posted November 24, 2001 yulong wrote: Frances, > > Thank you for your elucidation. I agree that this way of viewing > disease [as opportunity] is not widespread among modern practitioners of > chinese medicine. Ken, Why do you reckon this is? I'm just curious. > I think that this way of viewing disease as opportunity is rare among modern practitioners because of the tendency to be more influenced by the western/modern medical model which is more concerned with the cause and effect relationship that taking a more cosmic view. > > What I meant is that viewing disease > > as an opportunity may not be a widespread > > attitude among practitioners of Chinese > > medicine, either here or in China. I > > developed this attitude largely from > > the teachers I've had, many of whom are > > also martial artists. > > > In my experience, most of my martial arts teachers were/are doctors, > but--to my disappointment--I have not found my chinese medicine teachers > to be students of the martial arts. I have studied only in the U.S., > with chinese and caucasian teachers, respectively. So I look into my > taiji experience and studies for deeper meanings in my clinical work. It's certainly a good place to look. Are you familiar with the writings of Zheng Man Qing (Cheng Man Ching)? His rather short essays on various aspects of medicine and tai4 ji2 are enlightening. Yes, I am familiar with Cheng Man Ching's writings, Cheng Tzu's 13 Treatises on T'ai Chi Chuan. He was very fortunate to have devoted students who were also good translators and writers, so that his ideas have been widely communicated and shared, at least among the taiji community. > > > I mention tai4 ji2 in this regard because > > it includes this idea of taking advantage > > of the disadvantageous. This of course > > stems directly from Daoist sources, which > > can be cited at length. > > > > Yes, certainly in tai ji tui shou, one takes another's disadvantage and > transforms it into an advantage, or a change into another direction. > And when you think about it, that's what a good doctor does as well, eh? And the best doctors teach their patients how to do it themselves. Amen. > > And therefore any illness can be seen as > > an opportunity to interrupt the routine > > ignorance of the body/mind with a penetrating > > look to find out what has gone wrong. > > > And, why it went wrong when it did, why an illness happened at a > particular point in a person's life. There may be a deeper symbolism > and synchronicity to the time in one's life that a disease surfaces. > I can't really talk about this subject without frequently referring to Prof. Zheng. He called his tai4 ji2 school Correct Timing, and it is certainly one of the premier skills of both accomplished doctors and boxers that they can discern the right moment for action and stillness. --Indeed, it is everything. Frances Ken Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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