The Tao Te Ching is not a medical text/re:Paradigm Shift/definition of qi

[Guest guest]

" And one could name every single

differentiation/modification of the Tao as some type

of Qi.

The ten thousand things could be called ten thousand

different types of qi. "

 

 

A few of points re the " paradigm shift " and " what is

qi? " discussions.I have included some reference to

essays and texts from an Esoteric Tradition that I am

studying and an a formal practitioner of as a member

of this list I will not allude to my spiritual

practice much at all. I joined this list to develop my

skills in CM herbalism.I am a qualified acupuncturist

with some herbal knowledge. I am only a beginner in

this Tradition I practice within and have been

studying the Teaching fr 15 years.If you are an

academic type you will pick some errors of word choice

but I hope you understand some of the issues I raise .

 

Thank you for allowing me to view your discussion.

I hope you find these comments of some use.I hope the

book you are publishing is useful for practitioners of

Chinese medicine and for this world.

 

Frederick Court

 

1.

It is interesting to note that the Tao Te Ching was/is

NOT a medical text.

 

CM is a " worldly " medicine.(CM is one of the few

medicines that still utilises esoteric information

that is prior to understandings of Scientific

materialism.)

 

The Tao Te Ching describes that yin and yang

 

 

arise

in,

as,

and are pervaded by the Tao.

 

Information theory is not going to remove this fact.

 

Understanding the Tao which is the

root of qi is actually the emphasis in the whole text.

 

I use the word " understanding " not to mean an

intellectual understanding only or even at all, but

" understanding " that is embodied by the individual.

This understanding can even transcend the

notion/experience/illusion of the individual self as

the practitioner(spiritual practitioner) surrenders

self identity to that which is prior to manifest forms

and which pervades all forms.To give overdue attention

to the understanding of qi without understanding the

Tao leads to a lack of true clarity.To understand the

Tao is not a mental activity,though the mental

function is used and surrendered also in the process.

 

I would also posit that the third party you have

discussed " the observer " has a very different place in

the equation (as you call it) when the third party has

transcended his/her own action and is at one with all

that arises.Not with mind but as a pattern of evolved

and transcended energy.

 

The main activity of Chinese medicine is to heal

people for their worldly lives.The main activity of

is not to understand the Tao (though

maybe it should essentially be so).Some practitioners

of Chinese medicine though do have a motive to

understand Reality. The Tao Te Ching is an esoteric

text.Deep understanding of it leads one beyond the

activity of healing a temporary form for conventional

worldly life.Understanding that which is prior to all

forms leads to True health.

 

Understanding the Tao is not an intellectual activity.

It is not a medical activity.

 

Understanding/Realizing the Tao is the ultimate

healing.

The Tao has had

many names

in many cultures

in many languages.

It is Nameless and beyond culture.

 

I only have one translation of The Tao Te Ching with

me here at the dojo in Tokyo.

However here is the translation of

Ch71(Shambala1990Trans.John C. H. Wu) And respect to

Lao Tzu whether one or many.

 

" To realize that our knowledge is ignorance,

This is noble insight.

To regard our ignorance as knowledge,

This is mental sickness.

 

Only when we are sick of our sick ness.

Shall we cease to be sick.

The Sage is not sick, being sick of sickness;

This is the secret of health. "

 

The majority of symptoms that we treat in patients are

effects of a world society that is lived with false

values and premises. How much dis-ease is caused by a

world focused on Scientific Materialism and Economic

rationalism . And how much war is created to defend

these values? How many innocent lives are killed on

the battlefield of the domestic marketplace due to bad

diet/false advertising etc. etc. etc.

 

So in the definition of qi are you supporting an

esoteric understanding or one that can be successfully

" explained by information theory " .

 

 

2.Practice (and theory) but not only theory in the

highest Spiritual traditions of mankinds is a totally

different form of human action and enquiry to the

models of enquiry used BY ANY FORM OF SCIENCE.

 

It involves practices such as meditation,diet,qi gong,

sexual yoga and more, that change the actual patterns

of energy/qi in the plastic body mind structure of the

practitioner.The practitioner brings into play/action

esoteric anatomical structures that are not usually

activated or consiously functioning in the structures

of individuals who are not involved in such practice.

..

ie THE VERY POLARISATIONS OF ENERGY OF THE

STRUCTURE CHANGE The very PHYSICS OF THE BODY MIND

STRUCTURE CHANGE. You could say that some individual

practitioners of higher traditions of esoteric

practice have a different paradigm manifesting as the

process of their body/mind activity.They as a

modification of unconditional Light vibrate and

transmit differently.

 

So when defining Qi what are the boundaries of your

territory?

And who are you " observing " ?

 

And are you denying the more esoteric possibilities of

understanding qi?

 

A great number of individuals over centuries have had

their various understandings of Qi? Some academics.

Some medical practitioners. Some spiritual

practitioners and medical practitioners. Some

spiritual practitioners.Understanding will vary

according to the individual AND the school they

associate with;if they associate/ed with a scool

 

Have you utilised information from actual practice of

esoteric traditions such as Taoism (which in practice

hardly exist now-they do, but they are rare!)

 

If we are defining qi what are the relationships of

these definitions with the very motives of our action.

 

 

3. All manifest existence is modification of

Undifferentiated Light. There is infinite possibility

in the modification of Undifferentiated,Unconditional

Light.

 

4. In your book have you looked at the relationship

between qi and Concsiousness? Have you looked at the

relationship between qi and understandings of similar

forms in the Tibetan medical tradition. The Ayurvedic

tradition etc.

 

In exploration of the manifestation of Qi which occurs

across the spectrum of conditionally modified

Light(both gross and subtle) one should not presume

therefore to understand the Tao.

 

And one could name every single

differentiation/modification of the Tao as some type

of Qi.

The ten thousand things could be called ten thousand

different types of qi.

 

I am looking forward to seeing this book. I just hope

it is not another exoteric denial (via its focii/and

presumed territory) of the Depth of the Mystery. What

in Taoism is called that which cannot be Named.

 

I hope it supports and has respect for the endeavour

of practitioners who do utilise the " old " forms of

practice that create an underlay of esoteric

understanding for their practice of TCM.

 

And if it is to help synergy and development of the

art of CM then wonderful but don't let us completely

turn CM into a science. Leave some life in it.

 

 

The tradition I study and practice is called Adidam.I

also study CM and am presently studying under a Zen

Master in the Soto Zen tradition.

 

The following essays may be of interest to you.

 

" The Esoteric Aspirations of Mankind Are Not a

" Failure of Nerve "

 

" The Western Prohibition Against Higher Knowledge and

Realization. "

 

" Space -Time Is Love Bliss "

 

" There Is No Face Within the Sky " :Secular

Science,Conventional God-Religion, and the

Non-Objective Self Revelation of Reality, Truth and

Real God

 

Which appear in these two texts which can be purchased

at www.adidam .org

 

*REAL GOD IS THE INDIVISIBLE ONENESS OF UNBROKEN LIGHT

 

*THE TRULY HUMAN NEW WORLD CULTURE OF UNBROKEN

REAL-GOD-MAN

He is a short quote form one essay from these texts.

 

" Reality Itself (or Truth, or Real God) is Realizable

> only by

> transcending the ego-effort of interpretation (or of

> conventional

> 'knowing') -- or all of the ego-based mind, itself.

> That is to say,

> Reality, Truth, and Real God is Realizable only by

> transcending the two

> fundamental operative ideas (and, thus, the

> fundamental common faults)

> associated with both scientific materialism and

> conventional

> God-religion. And by transcending the two

> fundamental operative ideas

> (at their common root -- which is egoity, or

> self-contraction, itself),

> even the entire process of discursive mental

> activity is transcended --

> such that Reality, Truth, and Real God may be Found

> (and, by Grace of

> True Divine Self-Realization, Realized) As the

> Obvious.

> THERE IS NO FACE WITHIN THE SKY

> by Adi Da Samraj

>

> www.adidam.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Frederick,

 

You've said a lot here and it's going to

take some time to digest it. But I wanted

to acknowledge it and let you know that

I will consider it carefully.

 

As to whether or not our book is faithful to and

respectful of the traditions on which we report, I will

leave it to you and other readers to determine.

We certainly hope it is both, but no doubt

we've failed in many ways, hopefully more

small than major. And we will look forward

to gaining the feedback from readers like

yourself who have given the subject a good

deal of thought, as well as from new comers.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

, Frederick Court <fwrcourt>

wrote:

> The Tao Te Ching describes that yin and yang arise in, as, and

are pervaded by the Tao.

>

> Information theory is not going to remove this fact.

 

 

Jim: You misunderstand. It isn't intended to. Like yin and yang,

information is " nothing " in itself. Like yin and yang, it only gets

exchanged. And, there can be a yin and a yang only in relation to

something. That's why buddhists say 'form is emptiness.'

 

 

> I would also posit that the third party you have

> discussed " the observer " has a very different place in

> the equation (as you call it) when the third party has

> transcended his/her own action and is at one with all

> that arises.Not with mind but as a pattern of evolved

> and transcended energy.

 

 

Jim: Again, no. Unlike Elvis, the observer never leaves the building-

--even when the building is " evolved and transcended. " Who and what

it is changes: just as " you " (whatever that may be) change from

childhood to adult---even moment to moment---like Heraclitus and the

river.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Thankyou for your response.There were definetely some

errors in what I wrote.

 

A matter of my personal interpretation.However the

texts I noted are completely exact in their

expression.

 

Thank you for your time.

Frederick Court

 

--- jramholz <jramholz wrote:

> , Frederick Court

> <fwrcourt>

> wrote:

> > The Tao Te Ching describes that yin and yang arise

> in, as, and

> are pervaded by the Tao.

> >

> > Information theory is not going to remove this

> fact.

>

>

> Jim: You misunderstand. It isn't intended to. Like

> yin and yang,

> information is " nothing " in itself. Like yin and

> yang, it only gets

> exchanged. And, there can be a yin and a yang only

> in relation to

> something. That's why buddhists say 'form is

> emptiness.'

>

>

> > I would also posit that the third party you have

> > discussed " the observer " has a very different

> place in

> > the equation (as you call it) when the third party

> has

> > transcended his/her own action and is at one with

> all

> > that arises.Not with mind but as a pattern of

> evolved

> > and transcended energy.

>

>

> Jim: Again, no. Unlike Elvis, the observer never

> leaves the building-

> --even when the building is " evolved and

> transcended. " Who and what

> it is changes: just as " you " (whatever that may be)

> change from

> childhood to adult---even moment to moment---like

> Heraclitus and the

> river.

>

>

> Jim Ramholz

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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