Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 >>>>> 15. Re: Appropriate language for qi, " dragon90405 " <yulong Qi4 is a tool. In fact one of its many meanings, through association with another word, min3, is tool. It's a kind of formal term that would appear in phrase like " laboratory equipment " equipment and tool having more or less the same meaning here, i.e. the stuff you use to get work done. Min3 means " utensil. " >>>>> Ken, though I like the idea of (also) thinking about Qi as a tool, this meaning comes from another character (homophone; the one with the four 'mouths'). In teaching chinese, I use etymology of characters, where interesting (it often is, especially for the understanding of quite a few TCM-terms). Some of my students are always surprised to see that Qi is also explainable as 'vapors rising (from cooking grain/rice)'. They are surprised to see that Qi also has this very material aspect (most people only think of it as a mysterious concept, which of course isn't wrong per se). Herman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 Herman, > > though I like the idea of (also) thinking about Qi as a tool, this meaning > comes from another character (homophone; the one with the four 'mouths'). We're talking about two different words here. The one you mention, qi4 (not the same character as the qi4 that we've been talking about here) is different from qi4 min3, which is the compound word to which I was referring in my earlier post. Qi4 min3 is made up of qi4 (the qi4 in question) and min3, which means utensil. > In teaching chinese, I use etymology of characters, where interesting (it > often is, especially for the understanding of quite a few TCM- terms). Some > of my students are always surprised to see that Qi is also explainable as > 'vapors rising (from cooking grain/rice)'. They are surprised to see that Qi > also has this very material aspect (most people only think of it as a > mysterious > concept, which of course isn't wrong per se). I often find that people are very surprised to find out what the word really means and how it is used. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2001 Report Share Posted December 11, 2001 17. Re: Appropriate language for qi " dragon90405 " <yulong Ken, > though I like the idea of (also) thinking about Qi as a tool, this meaning > comes from another character (homophone; the one with the four 'mouths'). >>> We're talking about two different words here. The one you mention, qi4 (not the same character as the qi4 that we've been talking about here) is different from qi4 min3, which is the compound word to which I was referring in my earlier post. Qi4 min3 is made up of qi4 (the qi4 in question) and min3, which means utensil. >>> No, the qi4 in the compound qi4min3 is not the qi4 we are talking about. At least, not according to my dictionaries. In which dictionary did you check this? If you use the Hanyu da cidian, please give me a pagenumber. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong min3..;-) and then will be really surprised at the double homophone which seems to be existant according to your reply. You can also send me a private mail with the characters so we don't bother the list with this linguistic talk. I don't think it's a big issue, but as a teacher and translator I just have to react again... >>> I often find that people are very surprised to find out what the word really means and how it is used. Ken >>> and because this is also true for a lot of other words/concepts, understanding the characters etymologically as well as taking notice of the everyday use of the words often can be of such great value studying " CM'' (brackets according to Jim's suggestion). Herman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2001 Report Share Posted December 12, 2001 Herman, The citations you're asking for are in our new book. Unfortunately, our set of the Han Yu Da Ci Dian is packed away in a box that stands on the balcony under a pile of boxes. I may or may not be able to get my hands on it. You may be right. I haven't looked in the dictionary for this term probably in years and lord knows we make tons of mistakes. If so, we'll be glad to correct it. This is probably beyond the scope of this list, so contact me at <editor_caom. Ken In , " Herman Oving " <jetnik@w...> wrote: > 17. Re: Appropriate language for qi > " dragon90405 " <yulong@m...> > > Ken, > > > though I like the idea of (also) thinking about Qi as a tool, this > meaning > > comes from another character (homophone; the one with the > four 'mouths'). > > >>> > We're talking about two different words here. > The one you mention, qi4 (not the same character > as the qi4 that we've been talking about here) is > different from qi4 min3, which is the compound > word to which I was referring in my earlier post. > > Qi4 min3 is made up of qi4 (the qi4 in question) > and min3, which means utensil. > >>> > > No, the qi4 in the compound qi4min3 is not the qi4 we are talking about. At > least, not according to my dictionaries. In which dictionary did you check > this? If you use the Hanyu da cidian, please give me a pagenumber. Maybe I'm > looking for the wrong min3..;-) and then will be really surprised at the > double homophone which seems to be existant according to your reply. You can > also send me a private mail with the characters so we don't bother the list > with this linguistic talk. I don't think it's a big issue, but as a teacher > and translator I just have to react again... > > >>> > I often find that people are very surprised > to find out what the word really means and > how it is used. > > Ken > >>> > > and because this is also true for a lot of other words/concepts, > understanding the characters etymologically as well as taking notice of the > everyday use of the words often can be of such great value studying " CM'' > (brackets according to Jim's suggestion). > > Herman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2001 Report Share Posted December 12, 2001 Herman, Just one more comment on this before we disappear it off the list. Our conversation about the question of which qi4 is which illustrates one small example of the complexity of studying Chinese language, obviously including Chinese medical language. I checked with my wife, and she remembers it the way I do, i.e. that the last definition of qi4 (that is the qi4 about which this thread has been) in our edition of Han Yu Da Ci Dian, I think it's #23 or so, is " utensil " or " apparatus " i.e. the qi4 that you are referring to as a homophone. Again, to the best of my recollection it's given as qi4 min3. As I recall, there is not an explanation given of how the meanings of these two words came to be associated, and I suppose if I've thought about it, I've considered it an example of the way that Chinese words often become " confused " for one another, either through sound or graphic appearance or through overlapping of concepts. It is an admittedly minor point in this instance, but it does demonstrate the degree of care one needs to exercise to get the meanings straight. By the way, the edition of HYDCD to which we refer is eight or ten volumes. I think it was printed in the late 80s. Sorry I can't put my hands on it at the moment. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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