Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 [will] A bigger stretch is the previous conversation about chills and fever being mandated to render a Shao Yang diagnosis. The text states only one key symptom from the category is necessary. The claim 'since the text is missing portions, Zhang Ji really intended Chills alternating with fever to be a critical component of the diagnosis' doesn't hold up logically for me. 1) Ok… Let’s play with this (logic) a bit. you seem to be stating that you are taking the text as face value, I.E. a) IT DOES NOT say specifically that there must be fever and chills to dx shaoyang, therefore there mustn’t be., and b) It states that there must be only one sign present to dx. shaoyang. This is a fair.. one could say such things including “DR.ZZJ meant every word NOW written in ‘our’ SHL, nothing more and nothing less.” But, I don’t think anything is as cut and dry as that… Let’s con’t: ONLY ONE symptom : the 1st three s/s listed for shaoyang are; dry mouth, dizzy vision, and bitter taste in the mouth. Can someone explain to me, if the above line means what you are quoting, how only 1 key symptom is needed to dx shaoyang? Are you saying that if one has a dry throat you can dx shaoyang? I think NOT. There are too many possibilities for dry throat… what about dizzy vision (vertigo)? I again, think not. These are the key symptoms listed for shaoyang. So what does the above line mean? And more importantly what is the essence of the shaoyang? Well I believe the essence is the fight and struggle between the body and an evil pathogen. This struggle is occurring in the shaoyang layer of the body. When the body is winning, there is fever. When the body is losing, there are chills. This is precisely why alternating fever and chills makes perfect sense in summing up the essence of this disorder. Can someone offer a better explanation about what shaoyang is about. What other symptom demonstrates this struggle? Dry mouth, hypochondriac pain, even a wiry pulse, none can explain the fight that is present in a shaoyang disorder. So... someone comes in with a dry throat, obviously this one symptom is not enough to diagnose the disorder. What does one need to then diagnose it? IF one needs more symptoms to dx shaoyang, then the above line does not mean what you say (i.e. you need only one symptom)… In conclusion, it makes more sense to say that one needs only one symptom plus A.F. & C. that just one symptom alone (i.e. dry throat). A.F. & C. is the only symptom mentioned that results and represents the essence of the shaoyang – the fight/ struggle in the shaoyang. Students miss the diagnosis time and time again because of hanging onto the notion of alternating chills and fever as a necessary component of the diagnosis. As Dr. Yang and three other Chinese faculty I have surveyed recently replied 'it is only true in the context of fever.' If there is fever - it must be alternating chills and fever. I’m just curious, what is your criteria then to diagnose shaoyang without the fever(/chills)? A wiry pulse is a critical portion of the diagnosis. previously you interpreted the text for face value, why now is a wiry pulse a critical portion of the diagnosis? Where in the text does it say this? Or is this a personal pulse bias you hold? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2001 Report Share Posted December 10, 2001 Excuse the following typo: (there are probably more, so I will apologize in advance) I wrote: “b) It states that there must be only one sign present to dx. shaoyang.” This should say “b) it states, that there needs to be only one sign present to dx. shaoyang.” transliteral of this line (Mitchell) “ only one sign [means that] this is [the pattern]…” -Jason [] Monday, December 10, 2001 5:45 PM To: RE: Re: Shao Yang syndrome - Essence [will] A bigger stretch is the previous conversation about chills and fever being mandated to render a Shao Yang diagnosis. The text states only one key symptom from the category is necessary. The claim 'since the text is missing portions, Zhang Ji really intended Chills alternating with fever to be a critical component of the diagnosis' doesn't hold up logically for me. 1) Ok… Let’s play with this (logic) a bit. you seem to be stating that you are taking the text as face value, I.E. a) IT DOES NOT say specifically that there must be fever and chills to dx shaoyang, therefore there mustn’t be., and b) It states that there must be only one sign present to dx. shaoyang. This is a fair.. one could say such things including “DR.ZZJ meant every word NOW written in ‘our’ SHL, nothing more and nothing less.” But, I don’t think anything is as cut and dry as that… Let’s con’t: ONLY ONE symptom : the 1st three s/s listed for shaoyang are; dry mouth, dizzy vision, and bitter taste in the mouth. Can someone explain to me, if the above line means what you are quoting, how only 1 key symptom is needed to dx shaoyang? Are you saying that if one has a dry throat you can dx shaoyang? I think NOT. There are too many possibilities for dry throat… what about dizzy vision (vertigo)? I again, think not. These are the key symptoms listed for shaoyang. So what does the above line mean? And more importantly what is the essence of the shaoyang? Well I believe the essence is the fight and struggle between the body and an evil pathogen. This struggle is occurring in the shaoyang layer of the body. When the body is winning, there is fever. When the body is losing, there are chills. This is precisely why alternating fever and chills makes perfect sense in summing up the essence of this disorder. Can someone offer a better explanation about what shaoyang is about. What other symptom demonstrates this struggle? Dry mouth, hypochondriac pain, even a wiry pulse, none can explain the fight that is present in a shaoyang disorder. So... someone comes in with a dry throat, obviously this one symptom is not enough to diagnose the disorder. What does one need to then diagnose it? IF one needs more symptoms to dx shaoyang, then the above line does not mean what you say (i.e. you need only one symptom)… In conclusion, it makes more sense to say that one needs only one symptom plus A.F. & C. that just one symptom alone (i.e. dry throat). A.F. & C. is the only symptom mentioned that results and represents the essence of the shaoyang – the fight/ struggle in the shaoyang. Students miss the diagnosis time and time again because of hanging onto the notion of alternating chills and fever as a necessary component of the diagnosis. As Dr. Yang and three other Chinese faculty I have surveyed recently replied 'it is only true in the context of fever.' If there is fever - it must be alternating chills and fever. I’m just curious, what is your criteria then to diagnose shaoyang without the fever(/chills)? A wiry pulse is a critical portion of the diagnosis. previously you interpreted the text for face value, why now is a wiry pulse a critical portion of the diagnosis? Where in the text does it say this? Or is this a personal pulse bias you hold? - Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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