Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Alon, > I see no shortage of those working to > transfer the field's clinical repetoir to other professions, so it may not > be that competence alone is enough to establish an independent profession. > >>>That is very true but a diffrent issue I may be missing your point, or maybe it is just a different discussion, but to me it is the same issue. A field is described by its standards and, while this is easily criticized as elitist, I do not feel it is wrong for standards to present a barrier that some cannot pass. Of course, we don't need a false barrier based on a false standard. We don't want to limit licensing to those who can do 250 one hand push-ups or to test them on their knowledge of calculus. Strength to weight ratio and math skills are not knowledge of Chinese medicine. On the other hand, we don't want to be without viable standards that protect the profession and its body of knowledge. If we say that the Chinese frame of reference can be dropped when it proves inconvenient, if anything and everything form body parts to diseases, and medicinal nomenclature can be `translated' into anatamophyiological language without note or rationale, then how can we object to wholesale biomedicalization? If there is no standard we apply to ourselves, then we have no standard to apply to others. If we replace the conceptual oddness of qi with the familiarity of `energy,' how can we be object when scientists reduce acupuncture to a nervous system phenomena, then dismiss it as a placebo? If we accept public claims of clinical efficacy with no evidence other than the reputation of the claimant, then how do we say that any claim by anyone is unfounded? There is a wonderful example in the history of the Quebec laws. Decades ago when Yves Reguena was arguing for a rigorous educational and testing foundation for licensing acupuncture in Quebec, he was steadily fought. But the same people who fought standards were back looking for evidence that acupuncture could do harm when the provincial government ruled that since acupuncture was homeostatic and could do no harm, required little in the way of education and testing, they would permit anyone with any medical degree to perform it. As regards the current subject of language, if our terminal degree, the doctorate, which will likely become the degree of our professors, requires none of the langauge skills that would allow someone to stay current with what is happening in Japan, China, Southeast Asia, or even Europe, how do we claim that we represent that knowledge and experience any more than anyone else? There may be a lot of sense in training large numbers of people as well as we can with what we can afford, an army to infuse themselves into our culture but is what we have now the only and everlasting standard? In western societies there is a direct relationship between lifetime income and the length and difficulty of the enabling education and degree. Maybe that is not `right' but certainly it is real. So, why not assert that you need a year of Chinese to go to acupuncture school, or that you need two quarters of Chinese history, or a reasonable understanding of statistics? What is wrong with a doctorate that not everyone can achieve and not every school can offer? We cannot, as the saying goes, have our cake and it it too. If it is the majority opinion of the field (however that could be known) that we are happy to be a trade, then we can have a trade-oriented education, but we cannot then demand professional pay and prestige. If we want professional pay and prestige, and control of our field by inter-professional acceptance, we must have a professional education. In my opinion, we should have both, and perhaps even other levels of education and practice, but I think the egalitarian urge and the status quo is in control politically. For example, one of the most fascinating things about the politics of this debate is how often the statements of position start-out talking about the doctorate but end-up talking about `the average acupuncturist.' Are we looking to the future or protecting the past? Bob bob Paradigm Publications www.paradigm-pubs.com 44 Linden Street Robert L. Felt Brookline MA 02445 617-738-4664 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 I do not feel it is wrong for standards to present a barrier that some cannot pass. >>>>You will never find me argue against strong standards. The question in what? Again, I believe that the making of clinicians is foremost in med school education. If we say that the Chinese frame of reference can be dropped when it proves inconvenient, if anything and everything form body parts to diseases, and medicinal nomenclature can be `translated' into anatamophyiological language without note or rationale, then how can we object to wholesale biomedicalization? If there is no standard we apply to ourselves, then we have no standard to apply to others. >>>Why is learning English lingo abandoning the tradition? Japan, China, Southeast Asia, or even Europe >>>So now we should all study Japanese, Chinese, Korean and more? Alon - Robert L. Felt Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:15 PM Language and professionalism Alon, > I see no shortage of those working to > transfer the field's clinical repetoir to other professions, so it may not> be that competence alone is enough to establish an independent profession.> >>>That is very true but a diffrent issueI may be missing your point, or maybe it is just a different discussion, but to me it is the same issue. A field is described by its standards and, while this is easily criticized as elitist, I do not feel it is wrong for standards to present a barrier that some cannot pass. Of course, we don't need a false barrier based on a false standard. We don't want to limit licensing to those who can do 250 one hand push-ups or to test them on their knowledge of calculus. Strength to weight ratio and math skills are not knowledge of Chinese medicine. On the other hand, we don't want to be without viable standards that protect the profession and its body of knowledge. If we say that the Chinese frame of reference can be dropped when it proves inconvenient, if anything and everything form body parts to diseases, and medicinal nomenclature can be `translated' into anatamophyiological language without note or rationale, then how can we object to wholesale biomedicalization? If there is no standard we apply to ourselves, then we have no standard to apply to others. If we replace the conceptual oddness of qi with the familiarity of `energy,' how can we be object when scientists reduce acupuncture to a nervous system phenomena, then dismiss it as a placebo? If we accept public claims of clinical efficacy with no evidence other than the reputation of the claimant, then how do we say that any claim by anyone is unfounded? There is a wonderful example in the history of the Quebec laws. Decades ago when Yves Reguena was arguing for a rigorous educational and testing foundation for licensing acupuncture in Quebec, he was steadily fought. But the same people who fought standards were back looking for evidence that acupuncture could do harm when the provincial government ruled that since acupuncture was homeostatic and could do no harm, required little in the way of education and testing, they would permit anyone with any medical degree to perform it. As regards the current subject of language, if our terminal degree, the doctorate, which will likely become the degree of our professors, requires none of the langauge skills that would allow someone to stay current with what is happening in Japan, China, Southeast Asia, or even Europe, how do we claim that we represent that knowledge and experience any more than anyone else? There may be a lot of sense in training large numbers of people as well as we can with what we can afford, an army to infuse themselves into our culture but is what we have now the only and everlasting standard? In western societies there is a direct relationship between lifetime income and the length and difficulty of the enabling education and degree. Maybe that is not `right' but certainly it is real. So, why not assert that you need a year of Chinese to go to acupuncture school, or that you need two quarters of Chinese history, or a reasonable understanding of statistics? What is wrong with a doctorate that not everyone can achieve and not every school can offer? We cannot, as the saying goes, have our cake and it it too. If it is the majority opinion of the field (however that could be known) that we are happy to be a trade, then we can have a trade-oriented education, but we cannot then demand professional pay and prestige. If we want professional pay and prestige, and control of our field by inter-professional acceptance, we must have a professional education. In my opinion, we should have both, and perhaps even other levels of education and practice, but I think the egalitarian urge and the status quo is in control politically. For example, one of the most fascinating things about the politics of this debate is how often the statements of position start-out talking about the doctorate but end-up talking about `the average acupuncturist.' Are we looking to the future or protecting the past? Bobbob Paradigm Publicationswww.paradigm-pubs.com 44 Linden StreetRobert L. Felt Brookline MA 02445617-738-4664Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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