Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Yes - I love it. The experience you are having should be conveyed and tested strongly in pharmacopoeia classes. The distinction between the use of Bu Gu Zhi and Rou Cong Rong are a critical one to make for this class of herbs. Will In a message dated 12/20/01 2:49:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, writes: I have been getting great results lately in chronic stubborn constipation with the use of rou cong rong. I have noticed some of my colleagues use da huang formulas for all kinds of constipation, even those with spleen qi and kidney yang xu. This seems counterintuitive to me. Sure, the bowels will move, but at what expense. When I perceive the problem as qi stagnation due to spleen qi xu, I have been using qi movers like da fu pi and zhi shi with formulas like bu zhong yi qi tang. While these herbs are also strong, I perceive them as much milder than da huang. However, when yang xu is present with dry constipation, I have been adding rou cong rong. I have treated IBS this way, as well as medication induced constipation and elderly constipation. I have found that the mere addition of rou cong rong when it is called for seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any experience with this herb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 I have been getting great results lately in chronic stubborn constipation with the use of rou cong rong. I have noticed some of my colleagues use da huang formulas for all kinds of constipation, even those with spleen qi and kidney yang xu. This seems counterintuitive to me. Sure, the bowels will move, but at what expense. When I perceive the problem as qi stagnation due to spleen qi xu, I have been using qi movers like da fu pi and zhi shi with formulas like bu zhong yi qi tang. While these herbs are also strong, I perceive them as much milder than da huang. However, when yang xu is present with dry constipation, I have been adding rou cong rong. I have treated IBS this way, as well as medication induced constipation and elderly constipation. I have found that the mere addition of rou cong rong when it is called for seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any experience with this herb. -- , FAX: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 I agree that using da huang indiscriminately is a great mistake. . . ..and we have the Shang Han Lun from centuries ago shows us just how bad a mistake that it can potentially be. I've been using Bob Flaw's 'Benefit the Flow' formula for chronic constipation from kd/sp dual qi (or yang) vacuity and getting good results with a few patients. It combines Zhang Jing-yue's ji chuan jian, which has rou cong rong as a sovereign ingredient, with bu zhong yi qi tang. So I agree that rou cong rong is a great medicinal for chronic stubborn constipation. On Thursday, December 20, 2001, at 02:44 PM, > I have been getting great results lately in chronic stubborn > constipation with the use of rou cong rong. I have noticed some of my > colleagues use da huang formulas for all kinds of constipation, even > those with spleen qi and kidney yang xu. This seems counterintuitive > to me. Sure, the bowels will move, but at what expense. When I > perceive the problem as qi stagnation due to spleen qi xu, I have been > using qi movers like da fu pi and zhi shi with formulas like bu zhong > yi qi tang. While these herbs are also strong, I perceive them as much > milder than da huang. However, when yang xu is present with dry > constipation, I have been adding rou cong rong. I have treated IBS > this way, as well as medication induced constipation and elderly > constipation. I have found that the mere addition of rou cong rong > when it is called for seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any > experience with this herb. > > -- > Chinese Herbs > > FAX: > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 Rou Cong Rong is the ruling or soverign medicinal in Blue Poppy Herbs' Free the Flow formula (which is a modification of Ji Chuan Jian, Flow the River Decoction). Bob , wrote: > I have been getting great results lately in chronic stubborn > constipation with the use of rou cong rong. I have noticed some of my > colleagues use da huang formulas for all kinds of constipation, even > those with spleen qi and kidney yang xu. This seems counterintuitive to > me. Sure, the bowels will move, but at what expense. When I perceive > the problem as qi stagnation due to spleen qi xu, I have been using qi > movers like da fu pi and zhi shi with formulas like bu zhong yi qi > tang. While these herbs are also strong, I perceive them as much milder > than da huang. However, when yang xu is present with dry constipation, > I have been adding rou cong rong. I have treated IBS this way, as well > as medication induced constipation and elderly constipation. I have > found that the mere addition of rou cong rong when it is called for > seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any experience with this herb. > > -- > Chinese Herbs > > FAX: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 I have treated IBS this way, as well as medication induced constipation and elderly constipation. I have found that the mere addition of rou cong rong when it is called for seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any experience with this herb. >>>>Yes I have done this for years. In patients with chronic dry stools from any deficiency even w/out K s/s. The problem I have had with chronic constipation is that even when I treat the so called underlying conditions, patients often can not get off the herbs. I suspect that long intestine syndrome may have something to do with it Alon - cha Thursday, December 20, 2001 4:44 PM rou cong rong I have been getting great results lately in chronic stubborn constipation with the use of rou cong rong. I have noticed some of my colleagues use da huang formulas for all kinds of constipation, even those with spleen qi and kidney yang xu. This seems counterintuitive to me. Sure, the bowels will move, but at what expense. When I perceive the problem as qi stagnation due to spleen qi xu, I have been using qi movers like da fu pi and zhi shi with formulas like bu zhong yi qi tang. While these herbs are also strong, I perceive them as much milder than da huang. However, when yang xu is present with dry constipation, I have been adding rou cong rong. I have treated IBS this way, as well as medication induced constipation and elderly constipation. I have found that the mere addition of rou cong rong when it is called for seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any experience with this herb. -- Chinese Herbs FAX: Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2001 Report Share Posted December 20, 2001 which would do what, especially effecacy. It would be great if one for example could pick an anti-depresent based on TCM. Since it is realy an imperical process. i know some think they can, such as Dr Ziger, but I have not been able to replicate. The only side-effects that are very predictable are 1. N/ in patients that have strong history of Nausea, however there is no difference for example between Qi congestion, Sp def, Damp. Depends more on medication. For example, short acting effexor will do it for about 100% of people. 2. Difficulty with erections if one is already has difficult with erections, although I have seen several patients with K def s/s do better with SSRI's. Knowing the cause ie, blood stasis such as diabetes, or K def does make it easier to see which will get what. I guess you can say that patient with H/Anxiety s/s are often helped by SSRI's. 3. Constipation from most opiates, regardless of constitution, it is dose related much more than TCM diagnosis. 4. Constipation is worsen in patients that tend to be dry especially with old tricyclics, (not as much with trazadone) but again I have seen quite a variation 5.Cell stabilizers often increase fatigue in those that are weak in general but again I have not been able to find a TCM pattern These are just of the cuff but I have tried to do this. I would appreciate if others have different experience Alon pemachophel2001 Thursday, December 20, 2001 5:11 PM Re: Integrative med/ was Chinese language ... I have no problem with those professionals who are dually trained and licensed to prescribe according to both systems. However, I am against people who are not specifically trained in the prescription of nutritional supplements prescribing them even though that is within their legal scope of practice. Nevertheless, even nutritional supplements have their potential side effects and, therefore, in certain cases at certain doses, a nutritional supplement might be iatrogenic. In my experience, prescribing these based on a CM understanding can help identify who might experience such side effects and what to do about them if they do. I don't feel there is naything inherently or intrinsically itatrogenic about nutritional supplements. All medicinals are tools, and, as tools, they may be used rightly or wrongly, wisely or unwisely. In my experience, CM pattern discrimination is one of the world's wisest systems of medicinal prescription.Bob - pemachophel2001 Thursday, December 20, 2001 5:14 PM Re: rou cong rong Rou Cong Rong is the ruling or soverign medicinal in Blue Poppy Herbs' Free the Flow formula (which is a modification of Ji Chuan Jian, Flow the River Decoction).Bob, wrote:> I have been getting great results lately in chronic stubborn> constipation with the use of rou cong rong. I have noticed some of my> colleagues use da huang formulas for all kinds of constipation, even> those with spleen qi and kidney yang xu. This seems counterintuitive to> me. Sure, the bowels will move, but at what expense. When I perceive> the problem as qi stagnation due to spleen qi xu, I have been using qi> movers like da fu pi and zhi shi with formulas like bu zhong yi qi> tang. While these herbs are also strong, I perceive them as much milder> than da huang. However, when yang xu is present with dry constipation,> I have been adding rou cong rong. I have treated IBS this way, as well> as medication induced constipation and elderly constipation. I have> found that the mere addition of rou cong rong when it is called for> seems to do the trick. Anyone else have any experience with this herb.> > -- > Chinese Herbs> http://www..org> FAX: Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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