Isoflavone/estrogen sensitive cancer

[Guest guest]

I have a question that I've been researching and have not found the answer

>to yet.

>My mother has had breast cancer and is now in remission. Her cancer is

>isoflavone-sensitive or estrogen-sensitive. Now she has very high blood

>pressure and I wanted to give her herbs to nourish the yin. I need to know

>if yin nourishing herbs have any isoflavone/estrogen properties that would

>trigger my mom's cancer again. That's the thing I don't want to take a

>chance with, but she needs something to lower her blood pressure due to yin

>deficiency. Not all cancers are isoflavone-sensitive so this is an unusual

>case for me.

>

>Please let me know where I can find out which herbs have isoflavone/estrogen

properties so that I can avoid those for her.

>

>Thank you so much!

-Nanette

[Guest guest]

Nanette,

 

Subhuti Dharmananda did an entire monograph on this in one of his START

group mailings in the last year or so. You may want to contact ITM.

 

Mark Reese

-

<Nanette128

 

Thursday, December 20, 2001 2:50 AM

Isoflavone/estrogen sensitive cancer

 

 

> I have a question that I've been researching and have not found the answer

> >to yet.

> >My mother has had breast cancer and is now in remission. Her cancer is

> >isoflavone-sensitive or estrogen-sensitive. Now she has very high blood

> >pressure and I wanted to give her herbs to nourish the yin. I need to

know

> >if yin nourishing herbs have any isoflavone/estrogen properties that

would

> >trigger my mom's cancer again. That's the thing I don't want to take a

> >chance with, but she needs something to lower her blood pressure due to

yin

> >deficiency. Not all cancers are isoflavone-sensitive so this is an

unusual

> >case for me.

> >

> >Please let me know where I can find out which herbs have

isoflavone/estrogen

> properties so that I can avoid those for her.

> >

> >Thank you so much!

> -Nanette

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Nanette,

 

I have been looking at the same question. The following herbs have

phytoestrogenic effects: Dang Gui, Xian Mao, Tu Si Zi, Xiang Fu, Shan

Zhu Yu, Shan Yao, Yin Yang Huo, Ya Ma Zi, Gan Cao, Ren Shen, Da Huang,

Shu Di Huang, Pu Gong Ying, Kuan Dong Hua.

 

I have seen no convincing evidence stating that the benefits of CH

outweigh the risk associated w/ raising estrogen levels in cancer

patients. Also seem to recall research which has shown that women who

consume high amounts of phtoestrogens in their diet have a decreased

incidence of breast cancer. Can't find the refer. though. Some

references for you: ITM online 9/99, herbal transitions vol IV. Molly

Greacen, L.Ac. has done some work on this issue and i believe her work

is @ spanda.com

 

best to you and your mom,

 

warren cargal

[Guest guest]

I'm no Western medical specialist, but my understanding is that

phytoestrogens do not raise the levels of so-called bad estrogens in

living female humans. In fact, they may protect against the negative

effects of those " bad " endogenous estrogens but filling up estrogen

receptor sites and preventing those bad estrogens from exerting a

negative influence. If I'm wrong about this, please excuse my

ignorance.

 

It seems to me this question once again recommends direct access to

the CM literature. There is a huge body of literature on the CM

treatment of all sorts cancers. In fact, there is hardly an issue that

goes by of any of the 40+ CM journals that does not have at least one

article on the CM treatment of this or that cancer. Reading those

articles, one can see what meds are routinely used by people with many

years of clinical experience treating large numbers of patients. As a

gynecologist, I have paid great attention over the years to the fact

that meds which we know contain phytoestrogens are not only routinely

used for the treatment of estrogen-sensitive cancers but are often

regarded as ruling or sovereign medicinals in such Rxs.

 

But I think there is a larger meta-issue here. Oncology (zhong liu ke)

is a specialty discipline in CM and one which is typically reserved

(in my experience) to some of the best and most experienced Chinese

doctors. I would strongly caution anyone against attempting to treat

cancer with CM unless they have been specifically trained to do so. I

know people will ask, " What's a patient to do if they live somewhere

where there isn't a properly trained Chinese medical oncologist? "

However, turn that question around for a moment. " What should a

patient do if there isn't a properly trained Western medical

oncologist around? Go to an untrained practitioner and hope for the

best? " I don't think so. In that case, the patient would be

recommended to travel somewhere where there is a properly trained

practitioner.

 

I don't regard myself as a slouch when it comes to CM. However, even

with access to the Chinese medical literature, I do not believe I am

sufficiently trained and informed to treat patients with cancer (even

after 20 years practice). Luckily for me, there is a Chinese doctor in

Boulder who has spent 20 years specializing in cancer (especially

female cancers). So I have someone to refer to, and I recongize that

there aren't such people in every community. It would be great if more

people would consider this specialty. As our population ages, we're

all going to be dealing with more malignancies. If someone wants to

learn how to treat cancer with CM medicine, I would highly recommend

spending at least six months in China training in a CM oncology ward.

A couple of hours seminar at the Pacific Symposium does not cut my

mustard.

 

Bob

 

 

, Warren Cargal <wcargal9@b...> wrote:

> Nanette,

>

> I have been looking at the same question. The following herbs have

> phytoestrogenic effects: Dang Gui, Xian Mao, Tu Si Zi, Xiang Fu,

Shan

> Zhu Yu, Shan Yao, Yin Yang Huo, Ya Ma Zi, Gan Cao, Ren Shen, Da

Huang,

> Shu Di Huang, Pu Gong Ying, Kuan Dong Hua.

>

> I have seen no convincing evidence stating that the benefits of CH

> outweigh the risk associated w/ raising estrogen levels in cancer

> patients. Also seem to recall research which has shown that women

who

> consume high amounts of phtoestrogens in their diet have a decreased

> incidence of breast cancer. Can't find the refer. though. Some

> references for you: ITM online 9/99, herbal transitions vol IV.

Molly

> Greacen, L.Ac. has done some work on this issue and i believe her

work

> is @ spanda.com

>

> best to you and your mom,

>

> warren cargal

[Guest guest]

, " pemachophel2001 " <

pemachophel2001> wrote:

 

If someone wants to

> learn how to treat cancer with CM medicine, I would highly recommend

> spending at least six months in China training in a CM oncology ward.

 

 

I agree with Bob. However, he is also right about that herbs that

contain phytoestrogens protect against cancer. And herbs that increase

endogenous estrogen have not been shown to affect tumors at all. There

is an article about this at itmonline.org, but it is fairly

sensational, even suggesting that cancer patients should avoid qi gong

because it also has been shown to alter hormone levels.