oriental pejorative

[Guest guest]

It seems to be that if one is awarded a MSOM = Master of Science Oriental

Medicine... well then, it seems, that a DOM = Doctoral Oriental Medicine

would follow. My Masters education was much more then acupuncture and

herbology.

 

Other then more credentials... I still am not totally clear how a Doctoral

program would be beneficial to me or my patients. I have sworn to be a

life-long student of this medicine... however not sure that I really need

more credentials... especially considering that the average person would

have no idea what the letters stood for.

 

In Health,

Teresa

 

 

> So how about AHD - Doctor of acupuncture and herbology?

>

> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

> Colleen

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Todd - The ACAOM approved doctoral programs will be specialties. Emperor's will have requirements for language and classical studies as a general portion of the program. The initial specialties will be gynecology, orthopedics, and behavioral medicine.

...

Will

 

My thoughts are even if there are specialties... I still am not convinced as to why I should pay the bigger bucks to study GYN at a private TCM school vs Big bucks to take it at say, Bob Flaws GYN specialty class. *LOL* I have a yearning for learning... I plan to take Dr. Fred Lerner's orthopedics class where I can become an Acupuncture Orthopedic Specialist with certification, and pay a fraction of the cost... plus I get more intials behind my name! At a local community college I can pay $100.00 for an entire 6 months of studying the basics of chinese, 6 classroom hrs/week... with 3 levels being offered.

 

I know there is absolutely no way I could possibly get a Doctoral degree... till my current student loan is paid for... *geesh* could be another 10 years... Nice to know there are alternatives *S*

 

In Health,

Teresa

 

[Guest guest]

As someone who (in my life prior to East Asian acupuncture and herbal

medical studies) was in a graduate program in Chinese language and

literature, and worked at a major university's Center for Asian Studies, I

have something to add to this discussion.

 

I know it's very popular now to deride being " politically correct, " but it

is still important to be considerate to all people, and put ourselves in

their shoes when we choose our words and actions. It's just being polite

and considerate, to my mind.

The term Oriental is outdated, just as many other terms describing

ethnicities, for example: wop, negro, spic, chink. Would you still use any

of those terms? I doubt it. They came from a period of time and from an

attitude that was overtly racist. Not that we aren't still racist now, but

we want to keep moving ahead.

Oriental is a term from the colonial period, where anything non-European

was Oriental. It didn't matter if it was Turkey, North Africa, India,

Korea, Cambodia, it was all lumped into the term Oriental. We're not

talking about rugs here, we're labelling a group of people and their cultures.

No one who is aware and well-educated uses this term anymore, and frankly,

it is embarrassing to me to hear this term in our profession. We sound

ignorant, and as I interact with related professionals in the medical

field, or in my Text Translation Group at Harvard

University, or even on my business card for public consumption, I dislike

having to use this term in talking about our profession. I especially don't

use it with Asian American friends or colleagues, because whether you like

it or not, it IS considered an outdated racist term.

 

Even if we don't care about using an outdated racist term because " we're

all used to Oriental, and don't intend anything pejorative " consider

this: Oriental is vague in its definition-- are we practicing all

non-Western medicines, are we practicing traditional North African

medicine, ayurveda from India or what?

I try to keep my own ego and preferences out of the way, and look to the

core of what I wish to intend by my words, and how it will affect and be

perceived by those who hear. As we know from traditional Chinese

philosophical studies, the naming of names is crucial. By naming what it

is, you also name what it is not. We define our reality by our constant

division of the one into two- yin and yang and further from there.

 

I use the term " Traditional East Asian Medicine. " That is what I study and

practice. I look to the medicine from East Asia: China, Japan, Korea, and

Vietnam. This states clearly that I have not studied and do not practice

ayurveda from India, African traditional medicine and shamanism, etc.

It also clearly states that I look to traditional medicine, not modern

allopathic medicine as practiced in Europe and the Americas (or even now in

China or Japan).

 

I know it is incovenient sometimes to make changes, but how we define

ourselves tells the world about our level of professionalism, education,

higher awareness and consideration for the people and cultures in which our

field of study originated. I will keep urging everyone in our profession to

stop using Oriental at every opportunity. Thanks for your time in reading

this explanation.

 

Karla Renaud

[Guest guest]

Karla Renaud wrote:

 

> I use the term " Traditional East Asian Medicine. "

 

Oddly enough, I would never refer to someone as " Oriental " because I do

recognize that it is, if nothing else, not very specific. It could mean

anything, and does sound somewhat ignorant.

 

However for some reason, I'm okay with " Oriental medicine " , probably

because of the way in which I've grown accostomed to using it. Realize

that, as Will mentioned, this is kind of the Korean version of PC. I

have discussed this very issue with two Koreans in particular, both

affiliated with ECTOM and they both prefered Oriental medicine to TCM

because TCM excludes all the variations of this paradigm that developed

in other Asian nations. So, just when I get used to OM, suddenly this is

unflattering or pejorative toward those of East Asian ancestry. I guess

flexibility is a strength in matters such as these.

 

But I'm also very sensitive to the marketplace. I come from a

background of radio broadcasting and marketing. The way things sound,

and how easy they are to communicate verbally is something of great

importance to my worldview. I think that this actually resonates well

with the importance that Chinese culture places on names.

 

" Traditional East Asian Medicine " is just too lengthy. A few years ago,

I began to refer to myself as an Eastern European Ashkanazi Jewish

American, just to bring the point home. Then I'd take a deep breath

having used up all my lung qi on that one line.

 

So, we don't know what Qi means, we can't decide on a title for our

doctors, and even words describing our work is subject to controversy.

 

Is there any hope for us? Can we just communicate in icons from here on

in? Uh-oh, back to the learning Chinese language thread...

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

, Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote:

 

>

> " Traditional East Asian Medicine " is just too lengthy.

 

Note that " east asian " has less syllables than " oriental " (3 versus 4),

so in terms of pronunciation, east asian is actually shorter.

 

[Guest guest]

Oriental is a term from the colonial period, where anything non-European

 

was Oriental. It didn't matter if it was Turkey, North Africa, India,

Korea, Cambodia, it was all lumped into the term Oriental. We're not

talking about rugs here, we're labelling a group of people and their

cultures.

 

Just to play devil's advocate:

Some one some where has divided the world into East and West but is

anyone in the Western world ie. USA, Canada, France, Germany, Sweden,

Italy, Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Brazil complaining that the term does

not recognize their culture or identity? I don't think so. Now I don't

live in the time that the term Oriental came about, but do people really

think that the Westerners of that time thought that all the different

countries really were all the same? You must be kidding me.

 

Language is fluid. It evolves as people do. Now, my elders (most of whom

are now dead) would complain about the " perfectly good word gay " being

taken over to now have a dual meaning, though the original definition of

happy can still be used today. I have even come across women named Gay.

So the word " Oriental " could at some point mean something very different

than it did even 15 years ago, mostly because those who used it

derogatorily are dying. But the collective memory of the oppressed or

hated usually does not die (just look at all the tribal wars that

started thousands of years ago that continue to this day), so even if

the meaning changes, those whose ancestors took insult from the word

Oriental, still will.

 

That said, I believe that both terms Asian and Oriental are too broad. I

for one do not practice Ayruvedic medicine. I live in a neighborhood

that is heavily Muslim. Many of the ethnic grocery stores and

restaurants call themselves Asian. So maybe it would be misleading to

some people that we call ourselves doctors of Asian or Oriental

Medicine.

 

So how about AHD - Doctor of acupuncture and herbology?

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Colleen

[Guest guest]

Todd -

 

The ACAOM approved doctoral programs will be specialties. Emperor's will have requirements for language and classical studies as a general portion of the program. The initial specialties will be gynecology, orthopedics, and behavioral medicine.

I have an OMD from the 80's, and will pursue the new doctorate since eventually it will become the status quo for academic settings in the US.

 

Will

 

In a message dated 12/26/01 8:33:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

 

 

Probably the most important point of all in this discussion. I won't be getting this degree. I have no time or money left for education at this level. State boards will not support increased scope of practice for this title, nor will they allow the use of the title doctor,according to my board sources in CA and OR. In fact, there is a good chance they will not recognize it in any serious way. They will probably allow one to use the letters as long as one also continues to use the letters L.Ac. That is current CA law for the old OMD title.

The benefit thus becomes dependent on the nature of the program. If language is required to graduate, then being forced to learn chinese will have great benefit. Also being forced to study classics. The research track may benefit the profession, but will have no effect on one's private practice. However, it may open career avenues in research that do not currently exist. As far as intensive study in a specialty like GYN, this could only help, but I am not sure it is part of the program. Finally, if one is required to do "advanced" study in all facets of CM like herbs and acu and massage and nutrition instead of just one, I suspect the whole thing will be quite dilute. The one area I see it playing out in is the insurance arena. The time may come when only DOM's or whatever are covered. Since their will be far fewer DOM's, the insurance industry will be able to say they cover acu, but pay out very few claims. I don't accept insurance anyway, so this point is moot to me. Given the choice on how to spend my time in the next few years,it will be by increasing my knowledge of medical chinese on my own.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/26/01 8:40:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, WMorris116 writes:

 

 

 

I have an OMD from the 80's, and will pursue the new doctorate since eventually it will become the status quo for academic settings in the US.

 

Will

 

 

 

Will, then will you be OMD, DAc, LAc? How confusing! Won't public people/patients wonder WHY all these different degrees and licenses are needed?

 

Julie

[Guest guest]

Julie:

 

<<Will, then will you be OMD, DAc, LAc? >>

 

I frankly don't know what the middle one will be. But - that will not be decided by the profession, it will be decided by ACAOM/CCAOM.

 

<<How confusing! >>

Yes!!!

 

<<Won't public people/patients wonder WHY all these different degrees

and licenses are needed?>>

 

Maybe. But, since we didn't maintain a single doctoral title entry level in the beginning, academics determined we needed a master's degree first. We now pay the price for not handling it then.

 

 

Will

[Guest guest]

, " Teresa Hall " <Teresa.bodywork4u@w...>

wrote:

 

>

> Other then more credentials... I still am not totally clear how a Doctoral

> program would be beneficial to me or my patients. I have sworn to be a

> life-long student of this medicine... however not sure that I really need

> more credentials... especially considering that the average person would

> have no idea what the letters stood for.

>

 

Probably the most important point of all in this discussion. I won't

be getting this degree. I have no time or money left for education at

this level. State boards will not support increased scope of practice

for this title, nor will they allow the use of the title

doctor,according to my board sources in CA and OR. In fact, there is a

good chance they will not recognize it in any serious way. They will

probably allow one to use the letters as long as one also continues to

use the letters L.Ac. That is current CA law for the old OMD title.

The benefit thus becomes dependent on the nature of the program. If

language is required to graduate, then being forced to learn chinese

will have great benefit. Also being forced to study classics. The

research track may benefit the profession, but will have no effect on

one's private practice. However, it may open career avenues in

research that do not currently exist. As far as intensive study in a

specialty like GYN, this could only help, but I am not sure it is part

of the program. Finally, if one is required to do " advanced " study in

all facets of CM like herbs and acu and massage and nutrition instead

of just one, I suspect the whole thing will be quite dilute. The one

area I see it playing out in is the insurance arena. The time may come

when only DOM's or whatever are covered. Since their will be far fewer

DOM's, the insurance industry will be able to say they cover acu, but

pay out very few claims. I don't accept insurance anyway, so this

point is moot to me. Given the choice on how to spend my time in the

next few years,it will be by increasing my knowledge of medical chinese

on my own.

 

[Guest guest]

And it does nothing for you> I have a DOM and I know

Alon

 

-

1

Wednesday, December 26, 2001 8:32 AM

Re: oriental pejorative

, "Teresa Hall" <Teresa.bodywork4u@w...> wrote:> > Other then more credentials... I still am not totally clear how a Doctoral> program would be beneficial to me or my patients. I have sworn to be a> life-long student of this medicine... however not sure that I really need> more credentials... especially considering that the average person would> have no idea what the letters stood for.> Probably the most important point of all in this discussion. I won't be getting this degree. I have no time or money left for education at this level. State boards will not support increased scope of practice for this title, nor will they allow the use of the title doctor,according to my board sources in CA and OR. In fact, there is a good chance they will not recognize it in any serious way. They will probably allow one to use the letters as long as one also continues to use the letters L.Ac. That is current CA law for the old OMD title. The benefit thus becomes dependent on the nature of the program. If language is required to graduate, then being forced to learn chinese will have great benefit. Also being forced to study classics. The research track may benefit the profession, but will have no effect on one's private practice. However, it may open career avenues in research that do not currently exist. As far as intensive study in a specialty like GYN, this could only help, but I am not sure it is part of the program. Finally, if one is required to do "advanced" study in all facets of CM like herbs and acu and massage and nutrition instead of just one, I suspect the whole thing will be quite dilute. The one area I see it playing out in is the insurance arena. The time may come when only DOM's or whatever are covered. Since their will be far fewer DOM's, the insurance industry will be able to say they cover acu, but pay out very few claims. I don't accept insurance anyway, so this point is moot to me. Given the choice on how to spend my time in the next few years,it will be by increasing my knowledge of medical chinese on my own.Todd Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Will, then will you be OMD, DAc, LAc? How confusing! Won't public

people/patients wonder WHY all these different degrees and licenses are needed?

 

Julie

 

 

You should see

all the titles highly educated nurses put behind their names – RN, BSN,

CNM….

And the list

goes on.

 

 

 

 

The

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary

organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and

postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a

variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing

education.

 

 

 

Your

use of is subject to the

[Guest guest]

I think the consensus statement is great. We should definitely send it to

any of our professional organizations with the word Oriental in their name.

 

Colleen's idea of Dr of Acupuncture and Herbology is interesting, as that

may mean more to others outside our profession - it's clear what is being

studied. I often find that I have to explain just that to the public:

whether I say I practice when I am being informal, or

Traditional East Asian Medicine when I am being more formal, I find I still

have to explain that this means acupuncture and herbs, medical qigong,

tuina, etc.

 

I must state further to my previous missive, that I often say I practice

" traditional Chinese medicine " to keep it simple when speaking to

people. I agree with Rory et al. who state that the root is in China, even

though we want to make note of the fact that the practice and theory in

Japan and Korea (and Taiwan where I first studied) are now quite different

from what goes on in mainland China. However, I think the term I use

formally in writing, as well as what we call the degree must be thought out

clearly and include those distinctions. That is why I like the term

" Traditional East Asian Medicine " as well.

 

Ken's elegant essay furthers my point that the naming of names is crucial

-- how we define ourselves. We have one chance now to help determine what

many of the new doctorates will be called. We are doing this for ourselves,

as well as out of concern to avoid offending people. We are thinking of the

content of what we do, and how we want to be perceived.

 

I see the point many have made about using Dr CM or Dr TCM. Yet, the

" traditional " is only a concern for those within our field, and those

outside have no idea that to us, " TCM " is a distinguisher, as Fernando

cleverly stated of whether your " tea is pre- or post-Mao. "

We need to decide whether the term " TCM " means to us the mainland China

post-Communist set curriculum of study with (ironically) ACTUALLY

NON-traditional ideology behind it. Is this important enough to ourselves

to use it as is, to avoid using it, or to try to TAKE BACK the term

" traditional Chinese medicine. " I use the term tcm, and explain very

clearly that I mean older pre-1950s Chinese medicine. I have chosen to

study with very traditional medical qigong and acupuncture practitioners,

and make that clear. I have also studied and practice traditional Japanese

and Korean styles of acupuncture, however, and like to include that in the

scope of my practice and acknowledge that it is a part (or at least an

option) of our wider field of acupuncture and herbs.

 

Perhaps schools that only teach " TCM " wouldn't care, and will just name

their doctorate DTCM. Other schools that teach current Japanese protocols

as well, may want to use DTAM, or DAM. Are we advocating that all schools

should have the same name for the doctorate or not?

 

I am off now to a meditation retreat til the New Year, and I look forward

to seeing more of your ideas on this topic when I return!

Karla Renaud

[Guest guest]

At 4:32 PM +0000 12/26/01, 1 wrote:

>I won't

>be getting this degree. I have no time or money left for education at

>this level. State boards will not support increased scope of practice

>for this title, nor will they allow the use of the title

>doctor,according to my board sources in CA and OR. In fact, there is a

>good chance they will not recognize it in any serious way.

--

 

what are you basing this on?

 

I'm inclined to agree with you that it may not be worth the time and

money for long term practitioners to get this degree. It seems to

have been set up with no consideration or care for relatively senior

practitioners. However, if you intend to teach in TCM colleges into

the distant future (maybe you don't), don't you think you'll need

this degree?

 

Rory

--

[Guest guest]

, Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote:

> At 4:32 PM +0000 12/26/01, 1 wrote:

 

> --

>

> what are you basing this on?

 

I have spoken with the woman who runs the acu board in OR and they said

acupuncturists will NEVER be allowed to call themselves Doctor in that

state if the board can help it. However, the same board licenses MD's

in OR. This is a legislative matter, but the opinion of the board

weighs heavily on the legislature. I have a source in CA that says the

same thing, but it is secondhand.

>

However, if you intend to teach in TCM colleges into

> the distant future (maybe you don't), don't you think you'll need

> this degree?

 

As long as there is a master's program as entry level, I should be able

to teach. The CCAOM intends to maintain master's as entry level. In

that case, schools will have to decide whether they would rather have

someone with experience or someone just out of school with a DOM title

to teach in their master's level program. Would you hire Bob Flaws or

Joe Schmoe, OMD. In fact, most master's level teachers do not even

have a master's degree themselves, since they went to school before

this was offered. If I have to do it, I will, but I will expect a

substantial salary increase to cover my time and expenses. When my mom

got her doctorate in education, her teacher's salary went up like 35%.

But I am making no further financial invetment in CM w/o guaranteed

financial returns. If forced to go back to school at this point in my

life, I would probably choose to go to school for something more

lucrative then CM, like IT or Law.

 

[Guest guest]

Teresa,

Is there any way you can set the date properly in your e-mail program

so it comes in 'at the head of the class' instead of with last week's

posts?

 

Thanks,

 

[Guest guest]

Sorry about that Z'ev! I believe I need to have something replaced on my

machine, as the time and date... keeps getting off track.

 

Teresa

-

" " <zrosenbe

 

Wednesday, December 26, 2001 2:35 PM

Re: Re: oriental pejorative

 

 

> Teresa,

> Is there any way you can set the date properly in your e-mail program

> so it comes in 'at the head of the class' instead of with last week's

> posts?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have a source in CA that says the same thing, but it is secondhand.>>>We are already allowed to call ourselves Dr if you have one

Alon

 

-

1

Wednesday, December 26, 2001 1:35 PM

Re: oriental pejorative

, Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote:> At 4:32 PM +0000 12/26/01, 1 wrote:> --> > what are you basing this on?I have spoken with the woman who runs the acu board in OR and they said acupuncturists will NEVER be allowed to call themselves Doctor in that state if the board can help it. However, the same board licenses MD's in OR. This is a legislative matter, but the opinion of the board weighs heavily on the legislature. I have a source in CA that says the same thing, but it is secondhand.> However, if you intend to teach in TCM colleges into > the distant future (maybe you don't), don't you think you'll need > this degree?As long as there is a master's program as entry level, I should be able to teach. The CCAOM intends to maintain master's as entry level. In that case, schools will have to decide whether they would rather have someone with experience or someone just out of school with a DOM title to teach in their master's level program. Would you hire Bob Flaws or Joe Schmoe, OMD. In fact, most master's level teachers do not even have a master's degree themselves, since they went to school before this was offered. If I have to do it, I will, but I will expect a substantial salary increase to cover my time and expenses. When my mom got her doctorate in education, her teacher's salary went up like 35%. But I am making no further financial invetment in CM w/o guaranteed financial returns. If forced to go back to school at this point in my life, I would probably choose to go to school for something more lucrative then CM, like IT or Law. :)ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> I have a source in CA that says the

> same thing, but it is secondhand.

> >>>We are already allowed to call ourselves Dr if you have one

> Alon

 

only if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think. for

instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves

doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy. I know you

can't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently got

cited for advertising himself as a physician.

 

[Guest guest]

, " 1 " <@i...> wrote:

 

> only if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think.

for

> instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves

> doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy. I know

you

> can't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently

got

> cited for advertising himself as a physician.

 

Interesting. In Florida we are given the initials AP (Acupuncture

Physician), however, we can't use the Dr. with our names.

 

Fernando

[Guest guest]

, " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote:

> , " 1 " <@i...> wrote:

>

> > only if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think.

> for

> > instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves

> > doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy. I know

> you

> > can't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently

> got

> > cited for advertising himself as a physician.

>

> Interesting. In Florida we are given the initials AP (Acupuncture

> Physician), however, we can't use the Dr. with our names.

>

> Fernando

 

With state laws determining the use of the term doctor as a title, the

degree will be without uniform value in this regard. I suspect very

few states will allow the title. If CA does, they are probably the

exception. Maybe Dave Molony has a thought on this.

 

[Guest guest]

I checked it out, because I was licensed in New Mexico for 17 years, and

the license became D.O.M. You cannot use the Dr. title outside of New

Mexico, especially in California.

 

 

On Wednesday, December 26, 2001, at 07:08 PM, 1 wrote:

 

> , " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> > I have a source in CA that says the

> > same thing, but it is secondhand.

> > >>>We are already allowed to call ourselves Dr if you have one

> > Alon

>

> only if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think.  for

> instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves

> doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy.  I know you

> can't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently got

> cited for advertising himself as a physician.

>

 

>

>

>

 

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

> healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

> academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety

> of professional services, including board approved online continuing

> education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

only if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think. for instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy.

>>>Yes you can if it is one of the programs that was recognized by ca dep of edu or it is by any other recognized institution

Alon

 

-

1

Wednesday, December 26, 2001 9:08 PM

Re: oriental pejorative

, "Alon Marcus" <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:> I have a source in CA that says the > same thing, but it is secondhand.> >>>We are already allowed to call ourselves Dr if you have one> Alononly if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think. for instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy. I know you can't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently got cited for advertising himself as a physician.ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

With state laws determining the use of the term doctor as a title, the degree will be without uniform value in this regard. I suspect very few states will allow the title. If CA does, they are probably the exception.

>>>If an institution is going to be regionally accredited and if you get a Dr degree I bet you even in Oregon you will be able to call your self a Dr

Alon

 

-

1

Wednesday, December 26, 2001 10:03 PM

Re: oriental pejorative

, "fbernall" <fbernall@a...> wrote:> , "1" <@i...> wrote:> > > only if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think. > for > > instance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselves > > doctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy. I know > you > > can't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently > got > > cited for advertising himself as a physician.> > Interesting. In Florida we are given the initials AP (Acupuncture > Physician), however, we can't use the Dr. with our names.> > FernandoWith state laws determining the use of the term doctor as a title, the degree will be without uniform value in this regard. I suspect very few states will allow the title. If CA does, they are probably the exception. Maybe Dave Molony has a thought on this.ToddChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

of New Mexico, especially in California.>>>>You are wrong

The state law is that if you have a recognized Dr degree you can. But you have to make sure that it is clear that you are not an MD so if you have a card with OMD you also have to say LAc on it

Alon

 

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Thursday, December 27, 2001 12:13 AM

Re: Re: oriental pejorative

I checked it out, because I was licensed in New Mexico for 17 years, and the license became D.O.M. You cannot use the Dr. title outside of New Mexico, especially in California.On Wednesday, December 26, 2001, at 07:08 PM, 1 wrote:

, "Alon Marcus" <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:> I have a source in CA that says the> same thing, but it is secondhand.> >>>We are already allowed to call ourselves Dr if you have one> Alononly if you have a doctorate recognized by a state board, I think. forinstance, I don't think those with the old OMD's can call themselvesdoctor and neither can someone with a Ph.D in philosophy. I know youcan't in Oregon and I know of an acupuncturist in CA who recently gotcited for advertising himself as a physician.Todd

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.