rhythms

[Guest guest]

An interesting group of studies was just published. One of

1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing

shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. It is believed this

is due to melatonin disruption. In animals with seasonal mating cycles,

melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. This is thought ot

be true in humans, too. Patients were deprived of melatonin during

the night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin

during the day from too little light stimulation. While this is a

major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works indoors

and stays up late under artificial light.

What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this

phenomena? Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects,

as it induces sleep. However this patient would be yin/blood xu at

night, but also lethargic during the day. The same substance that

promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours.

This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue,

while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep.

Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or

is it yang/qi xu during the day? At least one heart nourishing formula

is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue

(tian wang bu xin dan). It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue,

which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. However, it is not

only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario,

it is also lack of daylight. Does the yang qi from the sun affect

our internal yang qi? According to taoist qi gong I have learned,

it does. I have read about exercises to "swallow" moonlight to increase

vital yin at night, as well.

Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles

in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation.

If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not

cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang

problems during the day.

-- ,

 

 

FAX:

 

[Guest guest]

 

Is there an age group designation with this study? ....since

melatonin declines progressively with

age. More indication of yin(/yang) xu?

 

Also, here's more interesting data on the WM side. " Melatonin

delays and reverses menopause in

women " (Abstract from " Experimental Gerontology " ,

36, 297-310, 2001) ....more ties to estrogen...

 

Then, while I always thought that melatonin was a hormone. I recently

read that it is not a " true hormone....

Melatonin is produced and secreted by different tissues and organs, but

during the night only by the pineal

gland " (Walter Pierpaoli, M.D., Ph.D. Chronolife,

Switzerland--neuroendocrine researcher, 2nd Monte

Carlo Anti-Aging Conference)

 

And, as and aside, there has been link drawn to number of periods (and

estrogen cycles) in a women's lifetime,

(thus, supposedly women w/no or fewer childbirths are at a greater risk

for breast cancer) so, if this is true, is delaying menopause increasing

the risk of breast cancer?

 

I, too will be interested to hear the TCM view.

 

Kit

 

 

At 01:06 PM 12/28/01 -0800, you wrote:

An  interesting group of studies was just

published.  One of 1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that

those who worked swing shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. 

It is believed this is due to melatonin disruption.  In animals with

seasonal mating cycles, melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. 

This is thought ot be true in humans, too.  Patients were deprived of

melatonin during the night due to too much light stimulation and had

elevated melatonin during the day from too little light stimulation. 

While this is a major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone

who works indoors and stays up late under artificial light.

 

What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this

phenomena?  Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects,

as it induces sleep.  However this patient would be yin/blood xu at

night, but also lethargic during the day.  The same substance that

promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours. 

This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue,

while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep.  Is

such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or is

it yang/qi xu during the day?  At least one heart nourishing formula is

specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue (tian

wang bu xin dan).  It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue, which is

considered to be due to lack of sleep.  However, it is not only lack of

sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario, it is also

lack of daylight.  Does the yang qi from the sun affect our internal yang

qi?  According to taoist qi gong I have learned, it does.  I have read

about exercises to " swallow " moonlight to increase vital yin at

night, as well.

 

Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in

terms of TCM?  Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. 

If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night.  So by not

cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang

problems during the day.

 

-- ,

L.Ac. , Chinese Herb

Academy

 

 

FAX:  (413)

669-8859

 

Sponsor

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of

professional services, including board approved online continuing

education.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this phenomena

>>>>Remember that defensive Qi travels via the Divergent interiorly during the night and if disturbed results in weak anti-pathogenic Qi

Alon

 

-

cha

Friday, December 28, 2001 1:06 PM

rhythms

An interesting group of studies was just published. One of 1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. It is believed this is due to melatonin disruption. In animals with seasonal mating cycles, melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. This is thought ot be true in humans, too. Patients were deprived of melatonin during the night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin during the day from too little light stimulation. While this is a major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works indoors and stays up late under artificial light. What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this phenomena? Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep. However this patient would be yin/blood xu at night, but also lethargic during the day. The same substance that promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours. This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue, while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep. Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or is it yang/qi xu during the day? At least one heart nourishing formula is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue (tian wang bu xin dan). It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue, which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. However, it is not only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario, it is also lack of daylight. Does the yang qi from the sun affect our internal yang qi? According to taoist qi gong I have learned, it does. I have read about exercises to "swallow" moonlight to increase vital yin at night, as well. Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang problems during the day. -- Chinese Herbs FAX: Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

if this is true, is delaying menopause increasing the risk of breast cancer

>>>Probably yes as it will expose the breasts more estrogen cycles. It would be interesting to ask johnithen write since with his protocol of hormones menses goes for ever

Alon

 

-

Kit

Friday, December 28, 2001 1:53 PM

Re: rhythms

Is there an age group designation with this study? ....since melatonin declines progressively with age. More indication of yin(/yang) xu?Also, here's more interesting data on the WM side. "Melatonin delays and reverses menopause in women" (Abstract from "Experimental Gerontology", 36, 297-310, 2001) ....more ties to estrogen...Then, while I always thought that melatonin was a hormone. I recently read that it is not a "true hormone....Melatonin is produced and secreted by different tissues and organs, but during the night only by the pineal gland" (Walter Pierpaoli, M.D., Ph.D. Chronolife, Switzerland--neuroendocrine researcher, 2nd Monte Carlo Anti-Aging Conference)And, as and aside, there has been link drawn to number of periods (and estrogen cycles) in a women's lifetime, (thus, supposedly women w/no or fewer childbirths are at a greater risk for breast cancer) so, if this is true, is delaying menopause increasing the risk of breast cancer?I, too will be interested to hear the TCM view. KitAt 01:06 PM 12/28/01 -0800, you wrote:

An interesting group of studies was just published. One of 1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. It is believed this is due to melatonin disruption. In animals with seasonal mating cycles, melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. This is thought ot be true in humans, too. Patients were deprived of melatonin during the night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin during the day from too little light stimulation. While this is a major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works indoors and stays up late under artificial light. What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this phenomena? Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep. However this patient would be yin/blood xu at night, but also lethargic during the day. The same substance that promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours. This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue, while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep. Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or is it yang/qi xu during the day? At least one heart nourishing formula is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue (tian wang bu xin dan). It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue, which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. However, it is not only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario, it is also lack of daylight. Does the yang qi from the sun affect our internal yang qi? According to taoist qi gong I have learned, it does. I have read about exercises to "swallow" moonlight to increase vital yin at night, as well. Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang problems during the day. -- Chinese Herbs FAX:

[Guest guest]

, wrote:

 

> What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this

> phenomena? >

> Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles

in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual

transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over

night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one

is left with yang problems during the day.

 

 

This topic is very dear to me because it plays a major role in my

treatment protocol for fibromyalgia. I must admit that my take on this

is based on a mixture of western anatomy/physiology with my limited

TCM understanding of the same.

 

We all have different sleeping patterns. Some are reflective of our

work schedule, age, and habits. No matter what our sleeping pattern is

there's the undeniable fact that humans are designed for daytime

activity and nighttime rest. Any habitual sleeping pattern contrary to

this, alters the delicate balance of our harmony with nature and will

in the long run bring health complications.

 

I think that in an effort to describe melatonin from a TCM perspective

we should turn our sight towards the span of time that most of us here

in the West would consider appropriate for retirement from the day's

labor, San Jiao 9-11 PM to Lung/Large Intestine 5-7 AM.

 

With the San Jiao, I think that the flow of Kidney/Pericardium Qi into

the san jiao around 9 pm signals and triggers the body's innate

wisdom/knowledge to prepare for physiological activities of a yin

nature, i.e. the return of blood to the liver, the resting of the

hun, etc. I think also, that this pouring of qi is focused towards the

lower jiao comprising of the Kidneys and Liver. I lean towards

thinking that this process is initiated by liver via the eyes. We know

that as dusk approaches that afferent signals (I think from the

hypothalamus or pituitary, don't remember) are sent to the pineal

gland to begin the production and release of melatonin. Again, I think

the liver in part mediates this process.

 

We know that there are literally hundreds of bodily functions that are

triggered during a 24 hrs cycle according to our inner biologic

clocks. The so called Circadian Rhythm. Many of these functions take

place at night and one I think relevant to melatonin is the release of

the Growth Hormone.

 

There's been a lot of hype among body builders on the use of this

hormone and by no means am I promoting this practice. However there's

plenty of data on the benefits of Growth hormone particularly in the

repair of tissue and bone density among others. Interestingly, this

hormone is released primarily during the early stages of deep levels

of sleep. Here, again, the liver is involved. Growth hormone

stimulate the liver to secret another hormone insulin-like growth

factor-1 (IGF-1), which is responsible for the above mentioned

benefits. This liver function, however, is propelled by the Kidney's

Mother role to the liver on a five phase relationship. Seeing that

the Kidneys is responsible for the production of marrow and the brain

is the sea of marrow it leads to reason (at least in my chaotic way of

thinking) that Kd yin xu could be responsible for lack of sufficient

melatonin release—>shallow or medicated sleep—>insufficient GH from

the pituitary—>fatigue, lethargy, irritability in the morning.

 

Also, you mentioned that " Melatonin appears to have heart

blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep " . Here I think that

this is facilitated through sufficient Kd yin keeping heart fire in

check and thus not aggravating the mind/spirit.

 

In light of the above, what can we then expect the quality of qi would

be as it flows into the lung channel/system around 5 in the morning as

we prepare for another day? Not good, I would say. This then yields to

yang/qi xu during the day as well as liver/gallbladder s/s like:

depression; lack of courage; irritability impulsiveness; anger, and

frustration. Since Day is born from night as yang is born from yin

Perhaps a good night sleep would help resolve all those daytime blues.

 

This is why with my FM patients I do whatever I can to help them get a

good night sleep-->GH release-->tissue repair-->less pain-->happier

patient. And if that's all I accomplish, I can sleep with that.

 

BTW. The " Swallow the moon " Qi gong, is great for those with

hypertension from liver yin/blood xu.

 

What do you think?

 

Fernando

[Guest guest]

 

-

 

(IGF-1)

>>>>>high IGF-1 levels by the way has some detramental effects as well, including posibly resulting in cancer. By the way what are you doing with fibromyalgia?

Alon

fbernall

Friday, December 28, 2001 11:26 PM

Re: rhythms

, wrote:> What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this> phenomena? > > Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang problems during the day.This topic is very dear to me because it plays a major role in my treatment protocol for fibromyalgia. I must admit that my take on this is based on a mixture of western anatomy/physiology with my limited TCM understanding of the same.We all have different sleeping patterns. Some are reflective of our work schedule, age, and habits. No matter what our sleeping pattern is there's the undeniable fact that humans are designed for daytime activity and nighttime rest. Any habitual sleeping pattern contrary to this, alters the delicate balance of our harmony with nature and will in the long run bring health complications.I think that in an effort to describe melatonin from a TCM perspective we should turn our sight towards the span of time that most of us here in the West would consider appropriate for retirement from the day's labor, San Jiao 9-11 PM to Lung/Large Intestine 5-7 AM.With the San Jiao, I think that the flow of Kidney/Pericardium Qi into the san jiao around 9 pm signals and triggers the body's innate wisdom/knowledge to prepare for physiological activities of a yin nature, i.e. the return of blood to the liver, the resting of the hun, etc. I think also, that this pouring of qi is focused towards the lower jiao comprising of the Kidneys and Liver. I lean towards thinking that this process is initiated by liver via the eyes. We know that as dusk approaches that afferent signals (I think from the hypothalamus or pituitary, don't remember) are sent to the pineal gland to begin the production and release of melatonin. Again, I think the liver in part mediates this process.We know that there are literally hundreds of bodily functions that are triggered during a 24 hrs cycle according to our inner biologic clocks. The so called Circadian Rhythm. Many of these functions take place at night and one I think relevant to melatonin is the release of the Growth Hormone. There's been a lot of hype among body builders on the use of this hormone and by no means am I promoting this practice. However there's plenty of data on the benefits of Growth hormone particularly in the repair of tissue and bone density among others. Interestingly, this hormone is released primarily during the early stages of deep levels of sleep. Here, again, the liver is involved. Growth hormone stimulate the liver to secret another hormone insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), which is responsible for the above mentioned benefits. This liver function, however, is propelled by the Kidney's Mother role to the liver on a five phase relationship. Seeing that the Kidneys is responsible for the production of marrow and the brain is the sea of marrow it leads to reason (at least in my chaotic way of thinking) that Kd yin xu could be responsible for lack of sufficient melatonin release—>shallow or medicated sleep—>insufficient GH from the pituitary—>fatigue, lethargy, irritability in the morning.Also, you mentioned that "Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep". Here I think that this is facilitated through sufficient Kd yin keeping heart fire in check and thus not aggravating the mind/spirit.In light of the above, what can we then expect the quality of qi would be as it flows into the lung channel/system around 5 in the morning as we prepare for another day? Not good, I would say. This then yields to yang/qi xu during the day as well as liver/gallbladder s/s like: depression; lack of courage; irritability impulsiveness; anger, and frustration. Since Day is born from night as yang is born from yin Perhaps a good night sleep would help resolve all those daytime blues.This is why with my FM patients I do whatever I can to help them get a good night sleep-->GH release-->tissue repair-->less pain-->happier patient. And if that's all I accomplish, I can sleep with that.BTW. The "Swallow the moon" Qi gong, is great for those with hypertension from liver yin/blood xu.What do you think?FernandoChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

, " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote:

 

>

> What do you think?

>

> Fernando

 

I follow your logic and agree completely.

 

[Guest guest]

Fernando

What is " Swallow Moon Qi Gong " ? I mean What is the

technique? I have a patient with sleep disorder,

shallow sleep and irritability in the morning. I would

like to try for her the exercise you mentioned. Any

literature? Or at least a description.

Yuri

 

 

> BTW. The " Swallow the moon " Qi gong, is great for

> those with

> hypertension from liver yin/blood xu.

>

> What do you think?

>

> Fernando

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Send your FREE holiday greetings online!

http://greetings.

[Guest guest]

And, as and aside, there has been link drawn to number of periods (and

estrogen cycles) in a women's lifetime,

(thus, supposedly women w/no or fewer childbirths are at a greater risk

for breast cancer) so, if this is true, is delaying menopause increasing the

risk of breast cancer? Makes you wonder about HRT.

 

Also, the longer a woman breastfeeds her baby,

the less likely she is to get breast cancer. I don’t remember the stats,

but there is quite a significant percent reduction for every year she

breastfeeds. This may be due to a delay

in periods, though many women get their periods before they stop breastfeeding.

 

Colleen

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

This is a very interesting study, and I am not surprised at the

increased rate of breast cancer. To what you've described, add poor

diet (eating junk food while standing, under stress and under

flourescent lighting), probable lack of exercise, and disruption of

menstrual cycle. The night shift is not called the 'graveyard shift'

for no reason. Mortality rates have been shown to increase greatly in

studies of night shift workers. (see " The Clocks That Time Us " for some

studies).

 

I like very much your description of melatonin, and I have nothing

to add to it at this point. I'll look into it more myself.

I wonder if Li Shih-zhen would classify melatonin under 'human

medicinals', as it is a substance that is produced by the body itself,

i.e. a jing/essence.

 

 

On Friday, December 28, 2001, at 01:06 PM,

 

> An  interesting group of studies was just published.  One of 1600 women

> and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing shifts

> had much higher rate s of breast cancer.  It is believed this is due to

> melatonin disruption.  In animals with seasonal mating cycles,

> melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles.  This is thought ot be

> true in humans, too.  Patients were deprived of melatonin during the

> night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin

> during the day from too little light stimulation.  While this is a

> major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works

> indoors and stays up late under artificial light.

>

> What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this

> phenomena?  Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing

> effects, as it induces sleep.  However this patient would be yin/blood

> xu at night, but also lethargic during the day.  The same substance

> that promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime

> hours.  This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce

> fatigue, while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce

> sleep.  Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess

> at day or is it yang/qi xu during the day?  At least one heart

> nourishing formula is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness

> and daytime fatigue (tian wang bu xin dan).  It contains ren shen for

> the daytime fatigue, which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. 

> However, it is not only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in

> this melatonin scenario, it is also lack of daylight.  Does the yang qi

> from the sun affect our internal yang qi?  According to taoist qi gong

> I have learned, it does.  I have read about exercises to " swallow "

> moonlight to increase vital yin at night, as well.

>

> Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in

> terms of TCM?  Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual

> transformation.  If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over

> night.  So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one

> is left with yang problems during the day.

>

> --

> Chinese Herbs

>

> FAX: 

>

 

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

> healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

> academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety

> of professional services, including board approved online continuing

> education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

night shift workers

>>>Especially in those that keep switching

Alon

 

-

 

Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:11 AM

Re: rhythms

This is a very interesting study, and I am not surprised at the increased rate of breast cancer. To what you've described, add poor diet (eating junk food while standing, under stress and under flourescent lighting), probable lack of exercise, and disruption of menstrual cycle. The night shift is not called the 'graveyard shift' for no reason. Mortality rates have been shown to increase greatly in studies of night shift workers. (see "The Clocks That Time Us" for some studies).I like very much your description of melatonin, and I have nothing to add to it at this point. I'll look into it more myself.I wonder if Li Shih-zhen would classify melatonin under 'human medicinals', as it is a substance that is produced by the body itself, i.e. a jing/essence.On Friday, December 28, 2001, at 01:06 PM,

An interesting group of studies was just published. One of 1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. It is believed this is due to melatonin disruption. In animals with seasonal mating cycles, melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. This is thought ot be true in humans, too. Patients were deprived of melatonin during the night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin during the day from too little light stimulation. While this is a major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works indoors and stays up late under artificial light.What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this phenomena? Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep. However this patient would be yin/blood xu at night, but also lethargic during the day. The same substance that promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours. This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue, while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep. Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or is it yang/qi xu during the day? At least one heart nourishing formula is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue (tian wang bu xin dan). It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue, which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. However, it is not only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario, it is also lack of daylight. Does the yang qi from the sun affect our internal yang qi? According to taoist qi gong I have learned, it does. I have read about exercises to "swallow" moonlight to increase vital yin at night, as well.Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang problems during the day.-- Chinese Herbshttp://www..orgFAX:

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Especially in those that keep switching shifts

Alon

 

-

 

Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:11 AM

Re: rhythms

This is a very interesting study, and I am not surprised at the increased rate of breast cancer. To what you've described, add poor diet (eating junk food while standing, under stress and under flourescent lighting), probable lack of exercise, and disruption of menstrual cycle. The night shift is not called the 'graveyard shift' for no reason. Mortality rates have been shown to increase greatly in studies of night shift workers. (see "The Clocks That Time Us" for some studies).I like very much your description of melatonin, and I have nothing to add to it at this point. I'll look into it more myself.I wonder if Li Shih-zhen would classify melatonin under 'human medicinals', as it is a substance that is produced by the body itself, i.e. a jing/essence.On Friday, December 28, 2001, at 01:06 PM,

An interesting group of studies was just published. One of 1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. It is believed this is due to melatonin disruption. In animals with seasonal mating cycles, melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. This is thought ot be true in humans, too. Patients were deprived of melatonin during the night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin during the day from too little light stimulation. While this is a major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works indoors and stays up late under artificial light.What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this phenomena? Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep. However this patient would be yin/blood xu at night, but also lethargic during the day. The same substance that promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours. This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue, while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep. Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or is it yang/qi xu during the day? At least one heart nourishing formula is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue (tian wang bu xin dan). It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue, which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. However, it is not only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario, it is also lack of daylight. Does the yang qi from the sun affect our internal yang qi? According to taoist qi gong I have learned, it does. I have read about exercises to "swallow" moonlight to increase vital yin at night, as well.Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang problems during the day.-- Chinese Herbshttp://www..orgFAX:

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps looking at melatonin is too western based. Nightshift work in general, and night nursing in particular are very alienating, lonely and high stress jobs. This can lead to compression and stagnation of liver Qi and blood with ensuing tumor formation. The issue of Melatonin is likely a western attempt to define a phenomena at a superficial biochemical level rather than a deeper QI/blood issue.

 

 

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ALON MARCUS

Wednesday, January 02, 2002 2:52 PM

Re: rhythms

 

night shift workers

>>>Especially in those that keep switching

Alon

 

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Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:11 AM

Re: rhythms

This is a very interesting study, and I am not surprised at the increased rate of breast cancer. To what you've described, add poor diet (eating junk food while standing, under stress and under flourescent lighting), probable lack of exercise, and disruption of menstrual cycle. The night shift is not called the 'graveyard shift' for no reason. Mortality rates have been shown to increase greatly in studies of night shift workers. (see "The Clocks That Time Us" for some studies).I like very much your description of melatonin, and I have nothing to add to it at this point. I'll look into it more myself.I wonder if Li Shih-zhen would classify melatonin under 'human medicinals', as it is a substance that is produced by the body itself, i.e. a jing/essence.On Friday, December 28, 2001, at 01:06 PM,

An interesting group of studies was just published. One of 1600 women and another of 70,000 nurses found that those who worked swing shifts had much higher rate s of breast cancer. It is believed this is due to melatonin disruption. In animals with seasonal mating cycles, melatonin is closely tied to estrogen cycles. This is thought ot be true in humans, too. Patients were deprived of melatonin during the night due to too much light stimulation and had elevated melatonin during the day from too little light stimulation. While this is a major problem for shift workers, it also affects anyone who works indoors and stays up late under artificial light.What is melatonin's TCM description and/or how does TCM explain this phenomena? Melatonin appears to have heart blood/yin nourishing effects, as it induces sleep. However this patient would be yin/blood xu at night, but also lethargic during the day. The same substance that promotes sleep will lead to lethargy if elevated during daytime hours. This makes sense as taking suan zao ren in daytime will induce fatigue, while the same substance at night will be desirable to induce sleep. Is such a patient experiencing yin xu at night and yin excess at day or is it yang/qi xu during the day? At least one heart nourishing formula is specifically indicated for nighttime drowsiness and daytime fatigue (tian wang bu xin dan). It contains ren shen for the daytime fatigue, which is considered to be due to lack of sleep. However, it is not only lack of sleep that induces daytime fatigue in this melatonin scenario, it is also lack of daylight. Does the yang qi from the sun affect our internal yang qi? According to taoist qi gong I have learned, it does. I have read about exercises to "swallow" moonlight to increase vital yin at night, as well.Can anyone else explain the phenomena being induced by light cycles in terms of TCM? Maybe this has to do with yinyang mutual transformation. If yin is xu, it will not transform to yang over night. So by not cultivating the yin essences of night correctly, one is left with yang problems during the day.-- Chinese Herbshttp://www..orgFAX:

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.