Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 Jason: A brief run through Google revealed these cites. Dr. Hong from Taiwan is doing remarkable research on the cardiovascular impact of Chinese herbs. I had the good fortune of meeting him there in 96. BTW Nitric oxide is also one of the big deals about Jiao Gu Lan and other tonics. 19. C.Y.Hong, L.J.Lai and Y.T.Huang: Endothelium-dependentvasorelaxant effect of trilinolein: mediated by nitric oxide and cyclic GMP.Life Sciences 1995;57:1309-1315. 20. Y.C.Shen and C.Y.Hong: Effect of trilinolein on cyclicnucleotide formation in human platelets: relationship with its antiplateleteffect and nitric oxide synthesis. British Journal ofPharmacology1995;116:1644-1648. 21. S.S.Huang, S.F.Yeh and C.Y.Hong: Effect of anthraquinonederivatives on lipid peroxidation in rat heart mitochondria: structure-activityrelationship. Journal of Natural Products 1995;58:1365-1371. He Sho Wu as a squalene monooxygenase inhibitor? If it clearly functions as an antioxidant...then there may be possibilities for reducing atherosclerosis as well as degeneration of sensory organs as in cataracts. A variety of chemical compounds found in edible andmedicinal plants have recently been shown to be potent and selective inhibitorsof squalene monooxygenase. Ikuro Abe'slaboratory has shown that green tea polyphenols are particularly potent of inhibitors of the recombinant rat enzyme.11 The presence of a galloyl group (3,4,5-trihydroxybenzoyl) was necessary for inhibition; epigallocatechin-3-O-gallate (EGCG), the major green teapolyphenol, had a Ki of 0.74 µM. Themajor metabolites of EGCG were also inhibitory. Although a typical cup of green tea contains 100 mg of EGCG, the low bioavailability and 2-3 hr half-life suggests that significant tea consumption would be necessary to obtain therapeutic levels.12 EGCG is a noncompetitive inhibitor ofsqualene monooxygenase, and may act by scavenging the reactive oxygen speciesformed at the active site of the enzyme (the flavin 4a hydroperoxide). Other plant extracts that contain galloylesters, including rhubarb and the Chinese herb fo-ti (Polygonum multiflorum),have also been found to inhibit squalene monooxygenase and reduce serum cholesterol.11 Additional studies by Abe's group have identified several synthetic galloyl esters as potentinhibitors of squalene monooxygenase, including dodecyl gallate, with a Ki of33 nM.13 Dodecyl gallate, and othersynthetic alkylgalloyl esters, are widely used as antioxidant food additives. Abe I, Seki T, Umehara K, Miyase T, Noguchi H,Sakakibara J, Ono T. Green teapolyphenols: novel and potent inhibitors of squalene epoxidase. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 2000 Feb24;268(3):767-71 [abstract]. Abe I,Seki T, Noguchi H, Kashiwada Y. Galloylesters from rhubarb are potent inhibitors of squalene epoxidase, a key enzymein cholesterol biosynthesis. Planta Med2000 Dec;66(8):753-6 [abstract] Here is an herb company frmo China that considers the anthraquinone content to be the marker worth controlling for. Does this mean they intend it as a laxative? http://www.txjherb.com/products04_en.htm Polygonum multiflorum extract powder Anthraquinone=1.5% Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 Does anyone have any insights in regard to P. Unshuld’s claim that he shou wu is an inert substance with NO active ingredients, and in reality probably has no healing properties.. He implies that it’s properties are taken from a political story that uses this ‘useless’ vine/ root. ?? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 , " " <@o...> wrote: > Does anyone have any insights in regard to P. Unshuld's claim that he > shou wu is an inert substance with NO active ingredients, and in reality > probably has no healing properties.. He implies that it's properties are > taken from a political story that uses this 'useless' vine/ root. > ?? > - where did you read that? there have actually been clinical studies done on a standardized extract of he shou wu, showing it to be actually useful in slowing or reversing hair loss. In addition, it has been shown to have a distinct biochemical action shared by several other herbs. It inhibits the conversion of testosterone to the metabolite, dihydrotestosterone. High DHT is considerd the main cause of both hair loss and prostate enlargement. Drugs that have this action are used for both purposes. HSW, however, does not have some unwanted side effects, such as loss of muscle tone and decreased libido. So it hardly appears inert. Some people consider excess DHT conversion to have other ill effects on health, so the use of he shou wu as a longevity tonic may not be so far fetched. For those who don't mind a little cross cultural speculation. Since DHT is actually considered responsible for things like acne and excessive sex drive, it makes sense that it peaks at adolescence, a time of excess yang. However, as a person ages, it may continue to flare as yin declines. So perhaps it makes sense in yinyang theory that a yin essence tonic like HSW can bring the yang conversion of DHT under control. Excess conversion of DHT is kind of like yang reaching its max and instead of transforming to yin, it just produces more yang. In youth, it would probably be more correct to clear excess heat-toxin. I wonder if any of those jie du herbs affect DHT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 At 5:29 PM -0800 1/21/02, Jason wrote: Does anyone have any insights in regard to P. Unshuld's claim that he shou wu is an inert substance with NO active ingredients, and in reality probably has no healing properties.. He implies that it's properties are taken from a political story that uses this 'useless' vine/ root. -- Where/when did he say that? Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 <<Does anyone have any insights in regard to P. Unshuld's claim that he shou wu is an inert substance with NO active ingredients>> He shou wu contains between 1 and 2% known active ingredients, if you accept that concept altogether, which I don't. It contains lecithin, glycosides (including polygonimitin AB and C,)anthraquiones, emotin, emodin, rhein, rhaphatin, chrysophanic acid and chrysophanic acid anthrone. (I'm betting on polysaccharides too considering the way it hugs the sides of the bottle in the presence of high alcohol.) Mrs Grieves lists convallarin, asparagin, gum, sugar, stach and pectin. The herb reduces the intestinal absorption of dietary cholesterol, selectively inhibits thrombaxane 2 production, reduces heart rate, increases coronary circulation and has an antibacterial effect. The anthraquiones are demulcent, detoxifying and moisten the intestines. Emodin esters increase peristasis. The lecithin prevents the accumulation of cholesterol in the liver and the retention of lipids in the bloodstream, as well as preventing lipids from penetrating into the arterial endotheliun. This helps prevent arteriosclerosis. Lecithin is good for the hair, nerve tissue, brain and spinal cord, as well as red blood cell membranes. The herb is good for kidney yin deficiency signs of adrenal depletion like dizziness, blurred vision, premature gray hair, back ache and insomnia. It has been used in the treatment of malaria and pertussis. In western herbalism the herb has been made into a paste for black eyes, a suppository for hemmerhoids, decocted in wine for broken bones, distilled for cosmetic use (freshening the skin), macerated and for food use. The berries and leaves are used as an emetic. So if the attribution is correct, he is wrong. Karen Vaughan Creationsgarden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 Paul said this at the Pacific 2001 Symposium… and I think it is also in his History of Pharmaceutics…. So obviously, as Todd and Karen have stated, there are sources that state otherwise. Unschuld mentions how (now) every Chinese and his brother (my addition) swears by he shou wu for anti-aging etc… (because of this political story)… I don’t take him to say something, that seemingly seems so outrageous, without some reasoning behind it… So I ask, does anyone have any insights into where he is coming from…? Do you have the article that is “showing it to be actually useful in slowing or reversing hair loss.” Or know where I can get it… and… are you saying you have an article that says that it “It inhibits the conversion of testosterone to the metabolite, dihydrotestosterone” my medline search rendered nothing… -Jason Rory Kerr [rorykerr] Monday, January 21, 2002 5:48 PM To: Re: he shou wu At 5:29 PM -0800 1/21/02, wrote: Does anyone have any insights in regard to P. Unshuld's claim that he shou wu is an inert substance with NO active ingredients, and in reality probably has no healing properties.. He implies that it's properties are taken from a political story that uses this 'useless' vine/ root. -- Where/when did he say that? Rory -- The Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Your use of is subject to the Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 , WMorris116@A... wrote: > Here is an herb company frmo China that considers the anthraquinone content > to be the marker worth controlling for. Does this mean they intend it as a > laxative? No, I think that means anthraquinones are easy to quantify. And this merely means that if a certain level of one biochemical marker is there in a certain amount that there will be proportional amounts of all the other naturally occuring constituents. Contrary to belief in some circles, standardized extracts are NOT typically (if ever) made by manipulating the content of single biochemicals, but by concentrating the entire crude solution till a predetermined level of the marker can be measured. Everything is in its natural proportions, you just need less capsules to get the same dose, which merely reduces the number of capsules one has to take and guarantees consistency from capsule to capsule. Independant analysis has revealed wide variations in potency in nonstandardized products. Insurance companies and NIH have already lined up on the side of products with some degree of standardization and will not cover claims or award research grants for anything else. So we must insure that the process is as I have described it. In which case, there is no reason to be concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 > So if the attribution is correct, he is wrong. It is important to know the limitations of a person's expertise as well as their inherent biases. As a Buddhist, I have found some of his translations and assertions regarding Buddhism (in : A History of Ideas) to be laughably wrong and uninformed. But, hey, no one can be an expert in everything, and we all get into trouble when we cross outside the bounds of our personal expertise. The bigger problem is that Unschuld is no friend of the contemporary practice of Chinese medicine. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 Bob, > The bigger problem is that Unschuld is no friend of the > contemporary practice of Chinese medicine. > " Opposition is true friendship. " Wm. Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 - "Opposition is true friendship." >>>>>I totaly agree and would say not nessueraly opposition but critical viewing. It is excetly these type of cheer leading that I am reacting too in this list. If we do not grow up and start looking at TCM more cretically we will never progress Alon >>>>dragon90405 Tuesday, January 22, 2002 11:24 AM Re: he shou wu Bob,> The bigger problem is that Unschuld is no friend of the > contemporary practice of Chinese medicine.> "Opposition is true friendship."Wm. BlakeChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 At 12:50 PM -0600 1/22/02, Alon Marcus wrote: It is excetly these type of cheer leading that I am reacting too in this list. If we do not grow up and start looking at TCM more cretically we will never progress -- What cheer leading? Do you honestly think you are the only one who looks at the medicine, or their own practice, critically? Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2002 Report Share Posted January 22, 2002 What cheer leading? Do you honestly think you are the only one who looks at the medicine, or their own practice, critically? >>>>No except probably one of the few that is willing to discuss this openly. I have not heard one word so far Alon - Rory Kerr Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:38 PM Re: Re: he shou wu At 12:50 PM -0600 1/22/02, Alon Marcus wrote: It is excetly these type of cheer leading that I am reacting too in this list. If we do not grow up and start looking at TCM more cretically we will never progress -- What cheer leading? Do you honestly think you are the only one who looks at the medicine, or their own practice, critically? Rory-- Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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