Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 I heard that some CA professional org is opposing the doctorate vigorously. They want the entry level in CA to be DOM like NM. they want to increase master's hours for new students to 3900 (from about 3000), but they want older px just to be grandfathered in as doctors. the claim is that older px have done the CE and thus are actually better trained than recent grads. This seems a little self serving to me. Everyone knows you can spend your CE hours in the bathroom and still get credit. I find many, if not most, older px to be sorely lacking in every area of study. they may have the clinical experience, but they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and very little western med at all. There are of course notable exceptions in each of these areas, as exemplified by some members on this list, but everyone knows I am right about this. I'm on the fence about the doctorate and how it will affect my career if I don't get one and have to compete with young whippersnappers who graduated yesterday and call call themselves doc, but I definitely don't think you should be granted the DOM or whatever title we choose just because you graduated in 1980. that's a crock and it will demean our profession. The AAOM does not support this position. -- , FAX: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 I don't get one and have to compete with young whippersnappers who graduated yesterday and call themselves doc, but I definitely don't think you should be granted the DOM or whatever title we choose just because you graduated in 1980. that's a crock and it will demean our profession. <<<I totally agree, although think all entry level programs should be a professional Dr degree with a minimum of 4000 hours. That is the standard in the US for primary care except for NP and they have more than 4000 hours. If we grandfather old practioners without some extensive testing than it will hamper the future to OM. I think the future is more important than present titles Alon - cha Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:18 PM doctorate gossip I heard that some CA professional org is opposing the doctorate vigorously. They want the entry level in CA to be DOM like NM. they want to increase master's hours for new students to 3900 (from about 3000), but they want older px just to be grandfathered in as doctors. the claim is that older px have done the CE and thus are actually better trained than recent grads. This seems a little self serving to me. Everyone knows you can spend your CE hours in the bathroom and still get credit. I find many, if not most, older px to be sorely lacking in every area of study. they may have the clinical experience, but they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and very little western med at all. There are of course notable exceptions in each of these areas, as exemplified by some members on this list, but everyone knows I am right about this. I'm on the fence about the doctorate and how it will affect my career if I don't get one and have to compete with young whippersnappers who graduated yesterday and call call themselves doc, but I definitely don't think you should be granted the DOM or whatever title we choose just because you graduated in 1980. that's a crock and it will demean our profession. The AAOM does not support this position. -- Chinese Herbs FAX: Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 At 3:18 PM -0800 1/31/02, >they want older px just to be grandfathered in as doctors. the >claim is that older px have done the CE and thus are actually better >trained than recent grads. This seems a little self serving to me. >Everyone knows you can spend your CE hours in the bathroom and still >get credit. I find many, if not most, older px to be sorely lacking >in every area of study. they may have the clinical experience, but >they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and very little >western med at all. -- I disagree with you about this. There is good precedent for grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. Its really not for you or I to judge the quality of another's practice, or whether some people are more deserving than others. To the extent that there are incompetent practitioners out there, they'll be out there whether they are called doctor or not. More important is that we have a process that is fair, and doesn't lead to a disjointed profession. I believe grandfathering achieves that. I think that the arguments against grandfathering are more than a little self serving when they come from representatives of schools. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 , Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote: > I disagree with you about this. There is good precedent for > grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. Its really not for > you or I to judge the quality of another's practice, or whether some > people are more deserving than others. To the extent that there are > incompetent practitioners out there, they'll be out there whether > they are called doctor or not. More important is that we have a > process that is fair, and doesn't lead to a disjointed profession. I > believe grandfathering achieves that. > > I think that the arguments against grandfathering are more than a > little self serving when they come from representatives of schools. I agree with Rory on this. How can you marginalize the most experienced practitioners? Consider all their extra continuing education, research, and clinical experience. If an arbitrary number of hours can allow you to be called a doctor, why not credit older practitioners with the experience and education they have accrued? And, it is important to present a more unified image to the public. What message do we send to the public if you've been practicing for 20+ years and aren't entrusted with the same title and status as someone who has just graduated? And who will these whippersnappers learn from in the first place? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 , wrote: I find many, if not most, older px to be sorely lacking in > every area of study. they may have the clinical experience, but they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and very little western med at all. There are of course notable exceptions . . . Are all California schools requiring Chinese---and what level of proficiency is needed to graduate? Despite the extended hours, I doubt that the new doctoral graduates will know more than remedial TCM; even fewer will probably know 5- Phases, although the classical authors have written extensively about it. Perhaps it's time that continuing education units were more structured, too, rather than random---say classes in Chinese, 5- Phases, and Western medicine? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 , Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote: > > I think that the arguments against grandfathering are more than a > little self serving when they come from representatives of schools. > > Rory > -- I'll assume you are not referring to me. I am a school employee, not a representative. I have no vested financial interest in my school. I will not be teaching at the doctoral level and I may eventually have to find new employment unless I do something I really do not want to do, which is go back to school. However, you are correct that those who actually represent schools may be as self serving as those who want the title of doctor without the training. I personally would actually be served better by being grandfathered than I would by having to return to school. However, I can also honestly say most everyone I know who does represent schools where I have worked is genuinely interested in improving the profession via the doctorate. As motives go, the schools are probably a mix. Who do those who want to be grandfathered serve besides themselves? Even if they are justified in deserving this title, it is still pure self-interest. Self-interest is the raison d'etre of professional organizations and they have every right to push their case, but lets call a spade a spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 , " jramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > I agree with Rory on this. How can you marginalize the most > experienced practitioners? If there is to be a doctoral level competency exam and those who are out in practice can pass it, give them the title. If you are unable to show competency in whatever is decided to constitute doctoral level training, it makes no sense to get the title. If you have been waving a crystal over someone for 20 years, why should you get a doctorate that is for those who have studied the classics, chinese language and learned to do research? I am all for equivalency testing, but time in practice does not equal equivalency. I know plenty who could pass such and exam and plenty who couldn't. BTW, it will probably not be american old-timers who teach at the doctoral level. It will probably be doctors from china. And as I said, I would be well served personally by automatic grandfathering, but I do not think the public would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2002 Report Share Posted January 31, 2002 , " jramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > Are all California schools requiring Chinese no. > > Despite the extended hours, I doubt that the new doctoral graduates > will know more than remedial TCM; actually at PCOM, they will study nei jing, SHL, jin gui, jia yi jing fairly extensively > > Perhaps it's time that continuing education units were more > structured, too, rather than random---say classes in Chinese, 5- > Phases, and Western medicine? Perhaps,indeed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 Seems to me it is even better to offer both. DOM and PhD(doctoral) are in no way related. All of us should be considered Doctors at completion of our education, thats what we are. But we are not Phd's big difference, one is medically trained the other has done research, defended it and is an expert in a very narrow field. I get the feeling the two terms are being blended and that is not the way the western eductational system works. Bob --- Rory Kerr <rorykerr wrote: > At 3:18 PM -0800 1/31/02, > >they want older px just to be grandfathered in as > doctors. the > >claim is that older px have done the CE and thus > are actually better > >trained than recent grads. This seems a little > self serving to me. > >Everyone knows you can spend your CE hours in the > bathroom and still > >get credit. I find many, if not most, older px to > be sorely lacking > >in every area of study. they may have the clinical > experience, but > >they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and > very little > >western med at all. > -- > > I disagree with you about this. There is good > precedent for > grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. > Its really not for > you or I to judge the quality of another's practice, > or whether some > people are more deserving than others. To the extent > that there are > incompetent practitioners out there, they'll be out > there whether > they are called doctor or not. More important is > that we have a > process that is fair, and doesn't lead to a > disjointed profession. I > believe grandfathering achieves that. > > I think that the arguments against grandfathering > are more than a > little self serving when they come from > representatives of schools. > > Rory > -- > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 >I'll assume you are not referring to me. -- No I certainly wasn't. I was referring to the rather long history of this issue, and how the schools and their associations, have successfully squelched support for grandfathering. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 At 7:10 AM +0000 2/1/02, 1 wrote: >I can also honestly say most everyone I know who >does represent schools where I have worked is genuinely interested in >improving the profession via the doctorate. -- Yes, but I think this is a faulty objective. The less competent practitioners currently in place are unlikely to engage in 2-3000 hours of additional education, so the objective of raising standards won't be met. Those that are competent also unlikely to join the programs, although some may do so, simply because they don't need to educationally, can't afford to, etc. Those people will be precluded from the doctorate. The profession will improve over time if educational and licensing standards rise. The schools are entitled to a voice, but they have no business trying to dominate a debate about how to improve the profession and control its outcome. That is what they have done. >As motives go, the schools >are probably a mix. Who do those who want to be grandfathered serve >besides themselves? -- Their patients? >Even if they are justified in deserving this >title, it is still pure self-interest. Self-interest is the raison >d'etre of professional organizations and they have every right to push >their case, but lets call a spade a spade. -- What this comes down to is power. Schools are concentrations of capital, and have the personnel to exercise that capital politically in pursuit of their self interest. Professionals have no voice individually, and their professional associations are peopled by volunteers on the edge of exhaustion and with few resources. Who do you imagine is going to get their way in these circumstances? Like you I teach in school and professional seminars. I have no real objection to doing some more education, but 2000 hours plus is beyond reason. In fact, I have well over 2000 hours of formal educational time in special programs, CE seminars (I was not in the bathroom), and clinic in China. In addition to that I have many uncounted hours 'following " senior doctors in this country. According to the schools all this will count for nothing in designing a doctoral program for me. I'm not trying to plead my case to you, just trying to illustrate the point that the schools should not be the sole arbiters of what is reasonable if they are going to adopt such an inflexible approach. Do you really think that 15+ years of practice should count for nothing? Why are you so worried about a few people (very few I imagine) being called doctor who perhaps don't deserve it? It didn't cause problems for the pharmacists, why should it for us? After a few years it will no longer be an issue. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 At 7:21 AM +0000 2/1/02, 1 wrote: >If there is to be a doctoral level competency exam and those who are >out in practice can pass it, give them the title. If you are unable to >show competency in whatever is decided to constitute doctoral level >training, it makes no sense to get the title. -- I agree, equivalency assessment and competency testing are the way to go, but this is not what the schools are proposing, afaik. Who should do this? Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 I disagree with you about this. There is good precedent for grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. >>>>That was long ago. Also, look at what happened with american academy of pain Alon - Rory Kerr Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:23 PM Re: doctorate gossip At 3:18 PM -0800 1/31/02, >they want older px just to be grandfathered in as doctors. the >claim is that older px have done the CE and thus are actually better >trained than recent grads. This seems a little self serving to me. >Everyone knows you can spend your CE hours in the bathroom and still >get credit. I find many, if not most, older px to be sorely lacking >in every area of study. they may have the clinical experience, but >they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and very little >western med at all.-- I disagree with you about this. There is good precedent for grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. Its really not for you or I to judge the quality of another's practice, or whether some people are more deserving than others. To the extent that there are incompetent practitioners out there, they'll be out there whether they are called doctor or not. More important is that we have a process that is fair, and doesn't lead to a disjointed profession. I believe grandfathering achieves that.I think that the arguments against grandfathering are more than a little self serving when they come from representatives of schools.Rory-- Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 Teresa Hall wrote: > On another note, I recently acquired a number of, apparantly, the only > approved Doctorate in Oriental Medicine available in California... Are your referring to the Ph.D. in Classical Acupuncture? Something like that? That's an academic degree, different than the OMD, DOM, M-O-U-S-E thing that we've been talking about. Or is this that guy in Anaheim Hills. I think you can get a doctorate of divinity through him too. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 At 9:11 AM -0800 2/1/02, ALON MARCUS wrote: I disagree with you about this. There is good precedent for grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. >>>>That was long ago. Also, look at what happened with american academy of pain -- 'Long ago' doesn't invalidate it as a precedent. What did happen with the american academy of pain? who are they? Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 As motives go, the schools are probably a mix. Who do those who want to be grandfathered serve besides themselves? Even if they are justified in deserving this title, it is still pure self-interest. Self-interest is the raison d'etre of professional organizations and they have every right to push their case, but lets call a spade a spade.>>>>>I think in general the profession is best served if first there is a regionally accredited Dr program. When this is established we should decide what to do with older practitioners. Personally I think the DO model is best. What they did is everyone had to show that they had schooling in some areas and they offered ceu's for those that missed some aspects. Than they did the grandforthering Alon - 1 Thursday, January 31, 2002 11:10 PM Re: doctorate gossip , Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote:> > I think that the arguments against grandfathering are more than a > little self serving when they come from representatives of schools.> > Rory> --I'll assume you are not referring to me. I am a school employee, not a representative. I have no vested financial interest in my school. I will not be teaching at the doctoral level and I may eventually have to find new employment unless I do something I really do not want to do, which is go back to school. However, you are correct that those who actually represent schools may be as self serving as those who want the title of doctor without the training. I personally would actually be served better by being grandfathered than I would by having to return to school. However, I can also honestly say most everyone I know who does represent schools where I have worked is genuinely interested in improving the profession via the doctorate. As motives go, the schools are probably a mix. Who do those who want to be grandfathered serve besides themselves? Even if they are justified in deserving this title, it is still pure self-interest. Self-interest is the raison d'etre of professional organizations and they have every right to push their case, but lets call a spade a spade. Todd Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 I get the feeling the two terms arebeing blended and that is not the way the westerneducational system works.>>>>>>That is why i was saying we should follow the us model and do a professional Dr. not a phd Alon - Bob Linde Friday, February 01, 2002 2:14 AM Re: doctorate gossip Seems to me it is even better to offer both. DOM andPhD(doctoral) are in no way related. All of us shouldbe considered Doctors at completion of our education,thats what we are. But we are not Phd's bigdifference, one is medically trained the other hasdone research, defended it and is an expert in a verynarrow field. I get the feeling the two terms arebeing blended and that is not the way the westerneductational system works.Bob--- Rory Kerr <rorykerr wrote:> At 3:18 PM -0800 1/31/02, > >they want older px just to be grandfathered in as> doctors. the > >claim is that older px have done the CE and thus> are actually better > >trained than recent grads. This seems a little> self serving to me. > >Everyone knows you can spend your CE hours in the> bathroom and still > >get credit. I find many, if not most, older px to> be sorely lacking > >in every area of study. they may have the clinical> experience, but > >they do not read chinese, know only basic TCM and> very little > >western med at all.> --> > I disagree with you about this. There is good> precedent for > grandfathering, for example with the pharmacists.> Its really not for > you or I to judge the quality of another's practice,> or whether some > people are more deserving than others. To the extent> that there are > incompetent practitioners out there, they'll be out> there whether > they are called doctor or not. More important is> that we have a > process that is fair, and doesn't lead to a> disjointed profession. I > believe grandfathering achieves that.> > I think that the arguments against grandfathering> are more than a > little self serving when they come from> representatives of schools.> > Rory> -- > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions.The Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 The schools are entitled to a voice, but they have no business trying to dominate a debate about how to improve the profession and control its outcome. That is what they have done.>>>>You are correct and they have done so, so far alon - Rory Kerr Friday, February 01, 2002 6:30 AM Re: doctorate gossip At 7:10 AM +0000 2/1/02, 1 wrote:>I can also honestly say most everyone I know who>does represent schools where I have worked is genuinely interested in>improving the profession via the doctorate.--Yes, but I think this is a faulty objective. The less competent practitioners currently in place are unlikely to engage in 2-3000 hours of additional education, so the objective of raising standards won't be met. Those that are competent also unlikely to join the programs, although some may do so, simply because they don't need to educationally, can't afford to, etc. Those people will be precluded from the doctorate. The profession will improve over time if educational and licensing standards rise.The schools are entitled to a voice, but they have no business trying to dominate a debate about how to improve the profession and control its outcome. That is what they have done.>As motives go, the schools>are probably a mix. Who do those who want to be grandfathered serve>besides themselves?--Their patients?>Even if they are justified in deserving this>title, it is still pure self-interest. Self-interest is the raison>d'etre of professional organizations and they have every right to push>their case, but lets call a spade a spade.--What this comes down to is power. Schools are concentrations of capital, and have the personnel to exercise that capital politically in pursuit of their self interest. Professionals have no voice individually, and their professional associations are peopled by volunteers on the edge of exhaustion and with few resources. Who do you imagine is going to get their way in these circumstances?Like you I teach in school and professional seminars. I have no real objection to doing some more education, but 2000 hours plus is beyond reason. In fact, I have well over 2000 hours of formal educational time in special programs, CE seminars (I was not in the bathroom), and clinic in China. In addition to that I have many uncounted hours 'following" senior doctors in this country. According to the schools all this will count for nothing in designing a doctoral program for me. I'm not trying to plead my case to you, just trying to illustrate the point that the schools should not be the sole arbiters of what is reasonable if they are going to adopt such an inflexible approach. Do you really think that 15+ years of practice should count for nothing?Why are you so worried about a few people (very few I imagine) being called doctor who perhaps don't deserve it? It didn't cause problems for the pharmacists, why should it for us? After a few years it will no longer be an issue.Rory-- Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 OMD, DOM,M-O-U-S-E thing that we've been talking about.>>>These should be the type of degrees but not mousy. These ae professional degrees like MD - Al Stone Friday, February 01, 2002 10:12 AM Re: Re: doctorate gossip Teresa Hall wrote:> On another note, I recently acquired a number of, apparantly, the only> approved Doctorate in Oriental Medicine available in California... Are your referring to the Ph.D. in Classical Acupuncture? Somethinglike that? That's an academic degree, different than the OMD, DOM,M-O-U-S-E thing that we've been talking about.Or is this that guy in Anaheim Hills. I think you can get a doctorate ofdivinity through him too.-- Al Stone L.Ac.<AlStonehttp://www.BeyondWellBeing.comPain is inevitable, suffering is optional.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 they are a national organization that first grandfothered their members (as a so called study of what the standards should be for their board) but because they did this they are not excepted by main stream as much as they should Alon - Rory Kerr Friday, February 01, 2002 10:51 AM Re: doctorate gossip At 9:11 AM -0800 2/1/02, ALON MARCUS wrote: I disagree with you about this. There is good precedent forgrandfathering, for example with the pharmacists. >>>>That was long ago. Also, look at what happened with american academy of pain -- 'Long ago' doesn't invalidate it as a precedent. What did happen with the american academy of pain? who are they? Rory-- Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> > >>>>>I think in general the profession is best served if first there is a regionally accredited Dr program. When this is established we should decide what to do with older practitioners. What do you consider an " older practitioner " ? And who is the " we " that shall make this decision? Thanks. Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 What do you consider an "older practitioner"? And who is the "we" that shall make this decision? Thanks.>>>>>Good question. Probably the national organizations i would think Alon - fbernall Friday, February 01, 2002 2:20 PM Re: doctorate gossip , "ALON MARCUS" <alonmarcus@w...> > >>>>>I think in general the profession is best served if first there is a regionally accredited Dr program. When this is established we should decide what to do with older practitioners.What do you consider an "older practitioner"? And who is the "we" that shall make this decision? Thanks.FernandoChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 Todd: PCOM may be an exceptional school, but what is the standard in California? Can you send/post a syllabus? I'd like to see how you can fit all those classics in. Jim Ramholz > > Despite the extended hours, I doubt that the new doctoral graduates will know more than remedial TCM; > > actually at PCOM, they will study nei jing, SHL, jin gui, jia yi jing fairly extensively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2002 Report Share Posted February 1, 2002 As a new graduate and practitioner seeing approximately 15+ patients a week, I totally support the voice that graduates, who are graduating with 3200 + hours, should graduate with a title of Doctor. A 4+ year Master program is almost absurd. In most all professions Masters degrees are earned in 2 years. I recently committed to a VERY intensive, year long program... in which in the end and by passing a practical and written exam, can say I specialize in Acupuncture Orthopedics. The program is 300 hours long... and the hours I believe are transferable to some California schools. At any rate... I am feeling very comfortable interacting with other Doctors. I believe Networking and referring patients out keeps the Qi moving... and by doing so, I will also receive many referrals. I do not have a problem, at all... referring a patient to another acupuncturist... chiro, herbalist... Neurosurgeon, psychologist, radiologist etc. I believe the KEY is knowing when to refer. Most professionals in the Medical field want to know more about us and what we do... and when they should refer to us. From what they say... almost every day they have a patient ask, what about Acupuncture \or herbal medicine " will that help my condition " ? This Orthopedic course is totally filling in the cacks... in regards to things that I did not learn in the classroom. Like how to make money! On another note, I recently acquired a number of, apparantly, the only approved Doctorate in Oriental Medicine available in California... I plan to call the State Boards, for verification on this... if this information is in fact true, I can share the number with anyone who is interested. I believe the program can be done from home and at ones own pace. In Health & Happiness! Teresa Hall, L.Ac. Kwan Yin Holistic Center of San Diego 619-517-1188 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2002 Report Share Posted February 2, 2002 Todd: While your argument is somewhat persuasive, there are still a number of questions unanswered. What will be the requirements for someone to sit for the doctorate test? Will new graduates " outrank " Asian and older Western practitioners who don't want to sit for another test? Will the " doctors from China " be required to pass the exam, too? Or do they deserve a presumption of competence that most older Western practitioners do not enjoy? What about doctors from Korean, Vietman, and Japan---do they have equivalent standing to the Chinese? Jim Ramholz P.S. Can you post the syllabus for PCOM's classes that conver the classics? , " 1 " <@i...> wrote:> If there is to be a doctoral level competency exam and those who re > out in practice can pass it, give them the title. If you are unable to > show competency in whatever is decided to constitute octoral level > training, it makes no sense to get the title. If you have been waving > a crystal over someone for 20 years, why should you get a doctorate > that is for those who have studied the classics, chinese language and > learned to do research? I am all for equivalency testing, but time in > practice does not equal equivalency. I know plenty who could pass such > and exam and plenty who couldn't. BTW, it will probably not be > american old-timers who teach at the doctoral level. It will probably > be doctors from china. And as I said, I would be well served > personally by automatic grandfathering, but I do not think the public > would be. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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