Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Does anyone have any clinical experience with a fibromyalgia (FMS) sufferer who is on guaifenesin? Guai is an OTC expectorant, used to liquefy mucus, and mildly causes urinary excretion of uric acid. It causes excretion of phosphates, and to a lesser degree, oxalates and blood calcium. It's hypothersized that it's the excess intracellular phosphates that causes alot of the problems in FMS. The Tx problem is that it's considered CI with herbs due to the general presence of salicylates. Salicylates are manufactured by all plants and block the receptors for guai. I'm wondering how you handled this? If anyone has.... Is the patient willing to give the guai? Or are the herb formulas dispensed with altogther in the Tx. Thanks, Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 The Tx problem is that it's considered CI with herbs due to the general presence of salicylates. Salicylates are manufactured by all plants and block the receptors for guai.I'm wondering how you handled this? If anyone has....Is the patient willing to give the guai? Or are the herbformulas dispensed with altogther in the Tx.>>>>Kit I have done both. I have not noticed any reduction in efficacy of Guai when adding herbs. Of course you can try to substitute. Todd has just posted an article I wrote on FM on the group web site. It covers my personal approach to FM. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Because FMS shows such a strong deficiency---vacuity is acutally a good description here of the pulse picture at the zang depth---often at all the zang, why not simply replace the guaifenesin with an herbal formula? If it is actually a problem, the body should be able to moderate intercellular phosphates once the energy and blood are increased and more balanced. Jim Ramholz , " kitcurtin " <kitcurtin@e...> wrote: > Does anyone have any clinical experience with > a fibromyalgia (FMS) sufferer who is on guaifenesin? > > Guai is an OTC expectorant, used to liquefy mucus, and > mildly causes urinary excretion of uric acid. It causes > excretion of phosphates, and to a lesser degree, oxalates > and blood calcium. It's hypothersized that it's the excess > intracellular phosphates that causes alot of the problems in FMS. > > The Tx problem is that it's considered CI with herbs due to the > general presence of salicylates. Salicylates are manufactured by all > plants and block the receptors for guai. > > I'm wondering how you handled this? If anyone has.... > Is the patient willing to give the guai? Or are the herb > formulas dispensed with altogther in the Tx. > > Thanks, > Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: Todd has just posted an article I wrote on FM on the group web site. It covers my personal approach to FM. I didn't find it in the " Files " section. Is it posted yet? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 , " jramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > Because FMS shows such a strong deficiency---vacuity is acutally a > good description here of the pulse picture at the zang depth--- often > at all the zang, why not simply replace the guaifenesin with an > herbal formula? If it is actually a problem, the body should be able > to moderate intercellular phosphates once the energy and blood are > increased and more balanced. > > Jim Ramholz > Hi Jim, Thanks. That would be the answer that I'd love to be the solution. I'm not sure. I think the Western jury's still out on FMS, but reseach now is now pointing to an inherited enzyme abnormality (primarily affecting women) leading to faulty urinary excretion of intracelluar phosphates, creating an abnormal excess. W/o going into the chemistry here...the end result is a blockage of ATP formation......voila qi deficiency. (The blood deficiency is another issue...but, it has been suggested before going on guai to be tested for anemia) Along with fibro, there's often hypoglycemia involved, which can lead to dietary problems .....and SP XU...dampness. So we can treat all the symptoms/syndromes around this disease, ameliorating it to maintenance level. But, as far as replacing a genetically missing enzyme...well.... I'm thinking there might have to be a trade off. Perhaps once one has reached a maintainence level of guai, then one might depend on it only in flare-up situations. All that I have read of guai, one still needs to stay no sugar,low-carb, and live a more strict/disciplined life than one normally would w/o FMS. Maybe this is a good case for integrative medicine. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Hi Alon, Thanks. So the patient didn't have any symptoms return? This is good news. Of course, animal and mineral based herbs would not be a problem. It's only plant based herbs (vites,supplmnts,creams)that're the issue. I'll see if I can find your article. Hopefully, there is a formula attached. I'll be anxious to have a look. Kit , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: > > I have done both. I have not noticed any reduction in efficacy of Guai when adding herbs. Of course you can try to substitute. Todd has just posted an article I wrote on FM on the group web site. It covers my personal approach to FM. > Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 The FM article in at http://www..org/articles.html Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Of course, animal and mineral based herbs would not be a problem.It's only plant based herbs (vites,supplmnts,creams)that're the issue. I'll see if I can find your article. Hopefully, there is a formula attached. I'll be anxious to have a look. >>>Give me feed back Thanks Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2002 Report Share Posted February 11, 2002 Guai is an OTC expectorant, used to liquefy mucus, and mildly causes urinary excretion of uric acid. It causes excretion of phosphates, and to a lesser degree, oxalates and blood calcium. It's hypothersized that it's the excess intracellular phosphates that causes alot of the problems in FMS.>>>Kit do you have a references for this? I have always thought that guaifenesin was used empirically. I have never seen any references to it on medline Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 I got the info off of FMS sites....alternative medicine. I'll get some links and send to you personally. I've got tests the next couple days but will get back. Kit > > >>>Kit > do you have a references for this? I have always thought that guaifenesin was used empirically. I have never seen any references to it on medline > Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 Will do. Kit > >>>Give me feed back > Thanks Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2002 Report Share Posted February 12, 2002 Kit thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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