Guest guest Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 I have a friend/friend who has gotten 3 abnormal PAP smears back in the last year. She is very healthy, perhaps some liver qi stagnation, 28 years old, normal periods, one sexual partner, using condoms. Can anyone point me to recent modern research for herbs? Somewhere I have the old Flaws book but haven't found much more recent. my idea now is Si Wu Tang/Xiao Yao combinaiton with Bai Hua She She Cao and perhaps Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao. Also does anyone have real experience as to the time frame I can tell her for the period of treatment? thanks, doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 Doug, I recommend that you treat the woman's pattern and not add anything specific to the Rx (such as Bai Hua She She Cao) based on assumptions about cervical dysplasia and its possible underlying causes. Although your friend is healthy, everyone exhibits some pattern if examined carefully enough, especially if there is a disease process going on as evidenced by the Western lab work. In my experience (now 20 years specializing in gynecology), in the case of mild to moderate dysplasia, it is enough to treat the pattern accompanied by a local vaginal douche, the ingredients of which are also determined somewhat by pattern discrimination. This douche might be nothing more than yogurt or vinegar and water, or it might be made from a decoction of Chinese meds. The use of vaginal douches and cervical applications is something we cover in our Blue Poppy CM Gynecology Certification Program. There are some tricks of the trade to the use of such douches. How long it typically takes to treat cervical dysplasia depends on the severity of the dysplasia. For mild to moderate with good patient compliance, proper dietary therapy, etc., my patients have never needed more than three months for the Pap to turn negative. For severe dysplasia, I typically tell my patients it'll 3-6 months. You don't mention the degree of dysplasia; so it's hard to be more precise than that. Although my book is long out of print, and all the stuff on Western naturopathy I now believe was superfluous, the basic Chinese medical information was reasonably sound. I continue to read everything I can in the Chinese medical literature about cervical conditions, and I have not come across anything startlingly new or different. One of the problems is that, judging from the published literature, Chinese do not seem to use routine Pap smeer screening. Therefore, there is precious little on cervical dysplasia as opposed to cervical ectropion (i.e., cervical eversion) which is visually diagnosed during an intravaginal exam with speculum. Good luck and best wishes. Bob , wrote: > > I have a friend/friend who has gotten 3 abnormal PAP smears back in the last year. She is very healthy, perhaps some liver qi stagnation, 28 years old, normal periods, one sexual partner, using condoms. Can anyone point me to recent modern research for herbs? Somewhere I have the > old Flaws book but haven't found much more recent. > > my idea now is Si Wu Tang/Xiao Yao combinaiton with Bai Hua She She Cao and perhaps Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao. > Also does anyone have real experience as to the time frame I can tell her for the period of treatment? > thanks, > doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2002 Report Share Posted February 13, 2002 Bob, Are you refering to your 1986 " Free And Easy " ? Good book. In your " My Sister The Moon " book, you mentioned on pg 35 that, and I quote, " there is a movement afoot in PRC to discriminate TCM patterns serologically or, in other words, form blood analysis " . Did this ever happened? If so, any literature on the subject? Thanks, Fernando , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > Although my book is long out of print, and all the stuff on Western > naturopathy I now believe was superfluous, the basic Chinese medical > information was reasonably sound. I continue to read everything I can > in the Chinese medical literature about cervical conditions, and I > have not come across anything startlingly new or different. > > One of the problems is that, judging from the published literature, > Chinese do not seem to use routine Pap smeer screening. Therefore, > there is precious little on cervical dysplasia as opposed to cervical > ectropion (i.e., cervical eversion) which is visually diagnosed during > an intravaginal exam with speculum. > > Good luck and best wishes. > > Bob > , wrote: > > > > I have a friend/friend who has gotten 3 abnormal PAP smears back in > the last year. She is very healthy, perhaps some liver qi stagnation, > 28 years old, normal periods, one sexual partner, using condoms. Can > anyone point me to recent modern research for herbs? Somewhere I have > the > > old Flaws book but haven't found much more recent. > > > > my idea now is Si Wu Tang/Xiao Yao combinaiton with Bai Hua She She > Cao and perhaps Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao. > > Also does anyone have real experience as to the time frame I can > tell her for the period of treatment? > > thanks, > > doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2002 Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 Fernando, I was referring to Cervical Dysplasia & Prostate Cancer, HPV, A Hidden Link? It's been out of print for many years. It was one of my worst conceived creations. Efforts continue in China to correlate numerous different types of laboratory analysis with Chinese medical patterns. Within integrated Chinese-Western medicine (a specific medical delivery system in the PRC), certain of these are accepted as " standard " criteria. Check out my audiotape and little booklet on blood stasis as an example. Within Chinese medicine per se, I do not know of any such lab test which is currently accepted as a standard criterium. Typically, from the research that I have read, what one gets is a certain statistical preponderance but not an absolute one to one relationship. However, as analyses become more refined and more complex and as more and more variables are examined, I see no conceptual reason why such correlations will not eventually be worked out. See Bob Felt's posting today on " too much philosophy " for a thoughtful discussion of some the issues pertaining to this kind of research. Bob , " fbernall " <fbernall@a...> wrote: > Bob, > > Are you refering to your 1986 " Free And Easy " ? Good book. > > In your " My Sister The Moon " book, you mentioned on pg 35 that, and I > quote, " there is a movement afoot in PRC to discriminate TCM patterns > serologically or, in other words, form blood analysis " . Did this ever > happened? If so, any literature on the subject? Thanks, > > Fernando > > , " pemachophel2001 " > <pemachophel2001> wrote: > > > Although my book is long out of print, and all the stuff on Western > > naturopathy I now believe was superfluous, the basic Chinese medical > > information was reasonably sound. I continue to read everything I > can > > in the Chinese medical literature about cervical conditions, and I > > have not come across anything startlingly new or different. > > > > One of the problems is that, judging from the published literature, > > Chinese do not seem to use routine Pap smeer screening. Therefore, > > there is precious little on cervical dysplasia as opposed to > cervical > > ectropion (i.e., cervical eversion) which is visually diagnosed > during > > an intravaginal exam with speculum. > > > > Good luck and best wishes. > > > > Bob > > , > wrote: > > > > > > I have a friend/friend who has gotten 3 abnormal PAP smears back > in > > the last year. She is very healthy, perhaps some liver qi > stagnation, > > 28 years old, normal periods, one sexual partner, using condoms. Can > > anyone point me to recent modern research for herbs? Somewhere I > have > > the > > > old Flaws book but haven't found much more recent. > > > > > > my idea now is Si Wu Tang/Xiao Yao combinaiton with Bai Hua She > She > > Cao and perhaps Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao. > > > Also does anyone have real experience as to the time frame I can > > tell her for the period of treatment? > > > thanks, > > > doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2002 Report Share Posted February 14, 2002 Bob, Thanks for the response. Fernando , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > Fernando, > > I was referring to Cervical Dysplasia & Prostate Cancer, HPV, A Hidden > Link? It's been out of print for many years. It was one of my worst > conceived creations. > > Efforts continue in China to correlate numerous different types of > laboratory analysis with Chinese medical patterns. Within integrated > Chinese-Western medicine (a specific medical delivery system in the > PRC), certain of these are accepted as " standard " criteria. > Check out my audiotape and little booklet on blood stasis as an > example. Within Chinese medicine per se, I do not know of any such lab > test which is currently accepted as a standard criterium. Typically, > from the research that I have read, what one gets is a certain > statistical preponderance but not an absolute one to one relationship. > However, as analyses become more refined and more complex and as more > and more variables are examined, I see no conceptual reason why such > correlations will not eventually be worked out. See Bob Felt's posting > today on " too much philosophy " for a thoughtful discussion of some the > issues pertaining to this kind of research. > > Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2002 Report Share Posted February 15, 2002 Dear Doug, A number of problems here. 1) someone with abnormal pap smears is not really 'healthy', per say. Take the complete case, look at bowel movements, menses, emotional issues, digestion, medical history, skin problems, etc. 2) " Perhaps " liver qi stagnation means that you haven't diagnosed her yet? What about pulse and tongue? Have you done an intake yet? I wouldn't formulate ideas about prescriptions until your examination is complete. When you do, feel free to report back. All the best, On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 09:38 AM, wrote: > > I have a friend/friend who has gotten 3 abnormal PAP smears back in the > last year. She is very healthy, perhaps some liver qi stagnation, 28 > years old, normal periods, one sexual partner, using condoms. Can > anyone point me to recent modern research for herbs? Somewhere I have > the > old Flaws book but haven't found much more recent. > > my idea now is Si Wu Tang/Xiao Yao combinaiton with Bai Hua She She Cao > and perhaps Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao. > Also does anyone have real experience as to the time frame I can tell > her for the period of treatment? > thanks, > doug > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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