Digest Number 896

[Guest guest]

>

 

After this Pc Spes diasaster I think it's going to be a lot easier to form a

certification internally. May-way, Lotus and Quali have everything to gain by

having a " safety " label.

The irony is in California we have Prop 65, which has forced to put cancer

warnings on their patents because of opportunistic lawyers.

 

>

> The larger issue is what will the FDA finally do to control this, and what are

the effects on our profession going to be? If we are heading in the direction

of the European Codex, we may as well all hang up our shingles and forget about

being able to practice Herbal Medicine. However, we do need some sort of

controls to eliminate the abuse of Herbal Medicine by unscrupulous manufacturers

who are more than willing to jump on the herbal bandwagon, but for purely

monetary reasons. Perhaps this is an area where the National Boards need to

establish some sort of certification for the manufacture of Herbal Patent

medications. Like a " Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval " sort of thing. If we

do not develop some sort of self-monitoring system for our Herbal Medicines, the

FDA will do it for us in the end, and I doubt that we would be very happy with

their solution.

[Guest guest]

Douglas,

 

How do people in California respond to Prop 65 labels? Do they know

that this is just a legal necessity, or do they really take these

labels at face value? When we were at the Pacific Symposium this

November, we noticed that the parking lot at the Catamaran Hotel had a

Prop 65 sign. When we told our workers back in Colorado,

there was mucho mirth over what goes on in La-la-land. Yesterday I

bought a brass torch (for making jewelry; sorry, nothing to do with

CM) and it had a Prop 65 label. If everything has a label, then the

labels mean nothing.

 

At Blue Poppy Herbs, we've gone ahead and put Prop 65 labels on all

shipments of herbal products to California. Then we accompany these

shipments with a position paper on Prop 65 which can also be read at

our website. So far, we have lost a couple of practitioner customers

who say their patients are freaked out by the labels. We've also heard

of customers who take the labels off before giving them to their

patients. However, we feel we can't risk an expensive lawsuit over

this. Right or wrong, it is the law in California. Blue Poppy Herbs

attempts to the best of our ability to conform to all laws and

regulations in the jurisdictions within which we do business. We don't

necessarily agree with all those laws and regulations, but...

 

Bob

 

, wrote:

> >

>

> After this Pc Spes diasaster I think it's going to be a lot easier

to form a certification internally. May-way, Lotus and Quali have

everything to gain by having a " safety " label.

> The irony is in California we have Prop 65, which has forced to put

cancer warnings on their patents because of opportunistic lawyers.

>

> >

> > The larger issue is what will the FDA finally do to control this,

and what are the effects on our profession going to be? If we are

heading in the direction of the European Codex, we may as well all

hang up our shingles and forget about being able to practice Herbal

Medicine. However, we do need some sort of controls to eliminate the

abuse of Herbal Medicine by unscrupulous manufacturers who are more

than willing to jump on the herbal bandwagon, but for purely monetary

reasons. Perhaps this is an area where the National Boards need to

establish some sort of certification for the manufacture of Herbal

Patent medications. Like a " Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval " sort

of thing. If we do not develop some sort of self-monitoring system

for our Herbal Medicines, the FDA will do it for us in the end, and I

doubt that we would be very happy with their solution.

[Guest guest]

Doug,

 

If we do not develop some sort of self-monitoring system for our

Herbal Medicines, the FDA will do it for us in the end, and I doubt

that we would be very happy with their solution.

 

Any such self-monitoring system has to

include, if not begin with, a component

that will function to make communication

about the subject both comprehensible

and useful to those who will be involved

in the design, implementation, and

oversight of the whole system.

 

If we don't take full responsibility for

the language and the literature of

Chinese medicine as an early step

in a plan to implement your very

good advice, someone else

will. May well be the FDA or some other

governmental or quasi-governmental

agency. And I feel quite certain that

we would not be very happy with

their solutions to what the words all

mean.

 

I recently met a young man who is

about to graduate from an acupuncture

training program. He took a look at

our new book and said he was interested

to read it because, " I never bought into

this whole qi thing. "

 

He said it was a kind of insult to

patients to ask them questions

about whether or not they feel

anything when you stick something

hard and sharp into their bodies.

Of course you're gonna feel something.

 

I encouraged him to read the book

and urged him to share his thoughts

with me once he's gotten through it.

 

I found his frank expression of what

I believe to be a common problem

quite refreshing. He had not invented

anything to take the place of the missing

definition of qi4.

 

There is a curious problem here.

Anyone who studies qi4 has to invent

their own personal understanding of it.

But if such study and understanding

are not based upon and guided by

the accomplishments of the past

then students' toil is needlessly

difficult. And the real problem stems

from the extremely effective way

that students tend to invent meanings

to take the place of those that they

do not receive otherwise.

 

Thus, thinking that they know

they become less needful of looking

to find out. This dulls the mind

and leaves neither a

clear grasp of the integral sense

or access to sources of information

that might remedy this.

 

Another group of students argued with

me that we shouldn't have to have a

definition of qi if we can just feel it.

 

Of course the problem with this is that

so many terms in Chinese medicine

either contain qi4 or depend upon

qi4 for their understanding that it

would result in everybody having

a grasp of Chinese medicine that

was largely overweighted in feelings.

As so much of the commonality of

our lives is achieved by means of

language, this would make the study

and practice of medicine as difficult

as the study and practice of love.

And even then there would still be

some who would be moved to

words now and then, and then what

would happen?

 

Most traditional Chinese transmissions

and lineages that I've come into direct

personal contact with include a large

emphasis on this tactile sensibility.

And just look at the literature that

the Chinese have amassed on the

subject!

 

This is not to say that the feelings

associated with qi4 are either not

important or perhaps not even the

most important aspect of its study

and application. But we have to

look beyond our personal experience

and understand that the study and

practice of this art includes responsibilities

related to its ongoing transmission.

 

When Cheng Man Qing was asked

how students of tai4 ji2 could know

that what they were studying and practicing

was correct so that they might avoid

the heartbreak of realising only after

a lifetime spent pursuing wrong

objectives that their efforts have

come to naught, he responded by

saying, " Read the classics. If

what you are practicing resembles

what you find there, then you're

on the right track. "

 

I believe that the same thing can

and should be pointed out to

those who study and practice

Chinese medicine. And the role of

the classics as the governing

standards of meaning and application

should not be overlooked by

those who seek to regulate the

subject...whoever they are.

 

A group of professionals that uses

words it does not understand will

never be received by the public as

the source of self-monitoring systems

in which they are asked to place

their trust.

 

This is one of the reasons why

I push so hard to get people moving

on the study of the Chinese medical

language. Initiatives like the one you

have suggested must be carried out

by people who know what they are

talking about and can explain the most

difficult aspects of the subject to

the public as well as to policy makers

and regulators in words that they

can understand and use.

 

This is a long term effort that requires

individual committment and action.

 

 

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

pemachophel2001 wrote:

 

> So far, we have lost a couple of practitioner customers

> who say their patients are freaked out by the labels.

 

Yeah, I've seen that a bit too. Then again, those are the same patients

who believe everything they read and end up not sticking with your

treatment for very long anyway.

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

I found his frank expression of whatI believe to be a common problemquite refreshing. He had not inventedanything to take the place of the missingdefinition of qi4. >>>>

As far as needle sensation there is nothing that can not be explained by known physiological mechanisms.

Alon