Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 The first order of business should be how TCM can diagnosis this condition---especially if this case has not been previously diagnosed by Western medicine. Without adequate and reliable diagnosis, we're just guessing about what is going on. Jim Ramholz , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > With Todd's permission, I'd like to expand this discussion to how we > treat cancer patients in the West with Chinese medicine, since these > posts indicate a strong interest and opinions on this subject. > > First, I'd like to respond to Bob and Alon. > > I have Sun Bing-yin's translated text on cancer treatment, and I am > quite aware of his formulas and approach. Sadly, I have been unable to > use his prescriptions or approach, because 1) there is no one to train > me directly 2) there are legal issues in primary cancer treatment by TCM. > > My most difficult patients, or those that want primary, alternative > treatment options, I refer to experts in that area in TCM, or to > residency programs. Most of these patients require a lot more than what > a single practitioner like myself can give. They need comprehensive > support programs. One of my hopes is that such programs will be > developed here. > > There are a number of ways that we can help cancer patients, however, > using the approach (to quote another popular text) fu zheng jie du. or > 'support the correct, resolve toxin'. > > Because cancer affects patients at all levels of their existence, there > are many levels of support and treatment for them. > > Since most of our patients are using or have used biomedical treatment > options, including chemotherapy, radiation, monoclonal antibodies, > and/or surgery, there are various levels of support (fu zheng) that can > be given. Many of these have been pointed out in the Chinese medical > literature, and are, in my opinion, in our grasp. These supportive > therapies include herbal medicine, acumoxatherapy, exercise, diet, > meditation and life-style changes. > > This is, I think, the area where most of us are treating cancer patients. > > The primary treatment of cancer as a disease is a much more difficult > and complex issue, and requires more 'extreme' treatment strategies. > > What I see in Dr. Sun's treatment strategies, Bob, is a basis in the > work of Li Dong-yuan and the primacy of the spleen and stomach (in those > strategies). As he states in his book, supplementing medicinals can > fight cancer, and many patients have spleen and kidney vacuities. So > his prescriptions combine toxic medicinals to fight cancer toxin (du yao > gong xie) , they have generally large doses of spleen and kidney > supplementing medicinals as well. > > But, unlike much alternative cancer care in the West, there is a > coherent treatment strategy at work. > > One of the most difficult aspects of being a private practitioner is > that many new patients bring bags of supplements, herbs and drugs that > they have been prescribed by other practitioners. It is often difficult > to add to the already overburdened body (and pocket book). It goes > without saying that these medicines will often clash and create > additional problems. It is a touchy issue. > > While I perhaps overstated my case (as I tend to do at times), Alon and > Bob, you must admit that in normative practice, the method of producing > side effects is for more extreme circumstances. And, that the > physicians, even if they use many medicinals in different forms, are > still looking at the overall picture (or as Jim said, perhaps as one > very large prescription). > > Perhaps it is time for us to examine the writings of the 'purgation > school' to see how their strategies were designed. > > > > On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 08:08 AM, pemachophel2001 wrote: > > > Z'ev, > > > > This current discussion highlights the fact that, in CM, oncology > > (zhong liu ke) is a very specialized department. In my own limited > > experience (my main CM herb teacher, Dr. Yu Min, was a zhong liu ke > > specialist), it is considered ok and even necessary by some CM cancer > > specialists to produce side effects when treating cancer with Chinese > > meds. In that case, other formulas may be given to mitigate those side > > effects. One of the problems with treating cancer with CM is how to > > get enough meds into the body to be strong enough to fight the evil qi > > (according to Sun Bing-yin, a famous CM oncology expert, there is > > always evil qi in cancer). Therefore, it is not uncommon to prescribe > > three, four, or more formulas in various forms (perhaps one decoction > > and then one or more pills, powders, or injectionas) in order to get > > in enough medication. When Sun Bing-yin briefly practiced in Palo Alto > > a number of years ago before the INS shipped him back to the PRC, he > > commonly prescribed one decoction and three or four pills per day. > > When the FDa confiscated these pills, he was effectively hamstrung. > > > > Somewhat along the same lines, when I used to go to the pharmacy at > > the Long Hua and Yue Yang hospitals in Shanghai, the bao or packets > > for the cancer patients were always huge. They were markedly > > larger than the boa for the treatment of other, benign conditions. > > When I asked about this, I was told they were huge because of 1) the > > larger than normal doses per ingredient, and 2) the larger than normal > > number of ingredients. Presumably, some of those ingredients were in > > those formulas to harmonize other ingredients. Certainly that is the > > case in many of Sun Bing-yin's published formulas. > > > > These are just some of the reasons I am very trepidatious about the CM > > treatment of cancer by those not specifically trained in this very > > special specialty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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