Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Hello Group,I have several questions to ask and I hope this doesn't hit too many buttons for everynone on the topic of money. I have been out here in Philadelphia PA since December which requires a MD or DO supervisor in order to practice. Doc doesn't need to be in the office, but does legally need to give a script for each patient. So usually there is a "exchange" of some sort or the Doctor would rather have you under his roof for the direct supervision. With this creative maneuvering barrier, We as acupuncturist need to make a living also. So usually wind up practicing in several offices. My question lays upon what is a fair set-up across the board for us as a new acupuncturist out of school. Believe it or not there is quite a few Integrative offices out here. Most want to make some sort of percentage of patients seen arrangements. Ranging from 30-70% of Collected $. This percentage should also be weighted upon the referral possibilities within the practice. One office is offering $15 per acupuncture treatment to each patient. Whether PI, Work Comp, Cash,check charge. This office also suggests to limit time with each patient to 15minutes, so that a Ac can have three rooms going and see four patients an hour= $60/hr. Extra time is alloted for a new patient, but still the same pay $15 per visit. Another office I had talked to had offered a base pay of 2k a month and then a 20% commision on anything over 10K brought into the office per month by me via marketing/word of mouth. I am not quite sure how to think of the business aspect of Medicine out there, I feel like I am a salesman working on productivity. I do realize this is the business aspect of Medicine, yet I have very little business experience. I have been learning from talking about these different scenarios, but going with gut feelings is not cutting it here. From what I understand from a Dental Consultant, Dentist right out of school joining a practice receive 35% of fees collected. What has others experienced out there?I know that every office setting is different, whether it is a integrative office with MD's DC's, Ac's, NP's, and massage therapists vs just working with a DC/Ac office. Or just joining an established Ac office. In PA it is very difficult to practice without a MD/DO, because of the Supervisor requirements; however, there are a few offices doing it by sharing a small office between 4-5 practitioners. There is also a very "unspoken element" of the actual arrangement with the Doctor supervisors. Many Ac's here rely upon the MD/DO's that practice acupuncture or who at least are into it for the arrangement.I feel like I am hitting new territory here!! I have no problem talking to any practitioner in any field. I have even cold called some office with some interest in me after talking with them a few minutes on the telephone and sending my CV.Most Ac's out here practice in several offices to make ends meet. What are Ac's doing California? What kind of setups has everyone heard of that sounded reasonable for both Established practice and Practitioner seeking employmen?I realize this is not a two sentence answer, but some reasonable scenarios would be helpful. I know there are many integrative office in CA as well as private practice Ac's I have not come across any Practices that were interested in a Salary type situation in PA. I was turned onto a Office in Buffalo NY that was offering 40-50K for 50 hours of work/6 days a week, including benefits. Unfortunately it was in Buffalo. I believe that office to be run by MD's, who were looking for an LAc.I look forward to some helpful advise from the seasoned professionals as well as the new Ac's on the block. Thank-You,Fred Russo, Aug 2001 graduate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 , " Alfred Russo " <russoshen@h...> wrote: From what I understand from a Dental Consultant, Dentist right out of school joining a practice receive 35% of fees collected. What has others experienced out there? Fred If you get full reception, billing and some marketing support, then getting 40% of fees collected is standard out here in CA. without marketing , it is 50/50. Without billing or marketing, you should get 60% of fees. This is advice I got from someone who consults professionally for people negotiating medical practice arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 If you get full reception, billing and some marketing support, then getting 40% of fees collected is standard out here in CA. >>>Actually 50/50 has been the standard when I was looking many years ago. May it has changed Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2002 Report Share Posted February 21, 2002 > Alon Marcus wrote: > >>>Actually 50/50 has been the standard when I was looking many years > ago. May it has changed You know, that may seem to be a bit of a gouge, but looking at my numbers, I pay far more than 50% toward the upkeep and rent of my office space. Of course if I were busier, it would be lower. Still for beginners, I think that the percentage way of doing things is far more economically feasable than taking on the rent yourself, especially when you don't have a significant patient load. The real problem for me is that at one point, the percentage becomes a negative incentive. That's when I struck out on my own to get my own office. I also own a lot more stagnated qi too, so its always six of one and a half dozen of the other. : ) -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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