mentors

[Guest guest]

Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:28:12 -0000

" dragon90405 " <yulong

Re: treatment of cancer patients

 

Ken wrote:

 

>that the whole educational system in California,

>and to a greater or lesser extent the rest

>of the country, is slanted towards teaching

>the test.

 

A necessary evil, unfortunately. To practice (legally), I must pass

the boards. To pass the boards requires learning how to think the

way the test thinks. The grief of this scenario is that my ability

to

pass this test in no way reflects my ability. I generally score high

on all of my tests, but walk away from them wondering what the value

of that is in the greater scheme of things. The high score does not

establish a meaningful dialogue between me and a teacher; it does not

convey whether I've missed some subtlety or expressed the beginning

of wisdom.

 

I've often thought the best way around this would be for teachers to

teach as if the boards did not exist, as you suggest, while still

providing opportunity for us to prepare for the boards. Our grades

could be based on criteria more meaningful to our growth as

professionals and we could practice for the boards outside of class -

a kind of test-skills homework - on mock standardized tests. I'm

willing to bet this would actually be more rigorous for students and

more fulfilling for teachers.

 

 

>Regarding the scarcity of mentors, can you

>detail the ideal scene of having a mentor?

 

A mentor is someone wiser and more experienced than me who is willing

to pay attention and contribute to my progress in a focused,

individualized way. Even more than that, a mentor is someone who

craves fertile ground for all they've cultivated in their own

learning - a teacher looking for someone who can add longevity to his

own achievements. This is how the relationship becomes reciprocal -

not merely the flow of ideas down a slope from A to B, but a way of

extending the life expectancy of a life's work.

 

In real life, this can range from the very simple to the dramatic

potential requiring a musical score of grand proportions. Forsaking

the grand, I'd settle for a mentor who simply looks twice, is willing

to invest in me personally, provides a meaningful environment in

which it is not only SAFE to make mistakes but encouraged, and

actively seeks to enhance my successes.

 

The intern--supervisor relationship in the clinic provides this to

some degree. What downgrades it, in my opinion, is the acceleration

and speed at which we work and interact. A supervisor juggles a

handful of interns and another handful of assistants simultaneously

as patients come and go over a four hour period. It flies by and the

opportunities for cultivation are wedged in minute-sized time-slots.

After fourteen weeks, the shifts change and most interns begin again

with new supervisors. What's missing in this scenario is the sense

of having a special guide, someone to whom you'll later refer as " my

teacher. " I often feel an odd mixture of joy and envy when

professors begin sentences with " my teacher used to say,.... "

for example, can trace the roots of his theories about herb dosage

back to his teacher, a woman who learned from her family mentor from

a

very young age. There's a wealth in that connection that is

underestimated by our hurry-up-and-go society.

 

One very simple remedy might be the establishment of office hours,

paid of course. As an undergrad at a large university, visiting a

professor in his office, even for 15 minutes of conversation, was

very inspiring to me. This is different than speaking with a

professor after class or during breaks when a whole crowd of students

are buzzing about with their different agendas. The scheduled office

hours open a door for students seeking mentors - seeking deeper

attention. A scheduled meeting also honors the boundaries between

students and teachers, preventing the interaction from becoming

draining. Some of my university professors made the visits a

mandatory component of their exams so they could directly assess how

well the student was processing the material. Establishing office

hours for our teachers today would add significant dimension to our

program.

 

Beyond graduation, I don't know. As Frances said, it might feel like

ants arriving at a picnic once the caps and gowns come off. I'm not

sure how one particular ant would be able to single herself out and

attract a mentor. That is where the " elders " of this group come in

(referring not to age, but to depth of experience!). How would you

make yourselves available? Under what circumstances would it be

worth it to you? How much time would be enough of an investment to

extend your life's work?

 

Or, it could be that a forum such as this one is the new face of

mentorship. Perhaps the romantic ideals are not lost, but merely

changing form?

 

Laurie

----------------

" First comes knowledge,

then the doing of the job. And much later,

perhaps after you're dead, something grows

from what you've done.

 

Look for help and guidance

in whatever craft you're learning. Look for a generous

teacher, one who has absorbed the tradition he's in.

 

Look for pearls in oyster shells.

Learn technical skills from a craftsman.

 

Whenever you meet genuine spiritual teachers,

be gentle and polite and fair with them.

Ask them questions, and be eager

for answers. Never condescend.

 

[....]

 

Talking about it, reading books, and doing practices

don't help. Soul receives from soul that knowing. "

 

-- Rumi

[Guest guest]

Laurie,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

>

> A necessary evil, unfortunately.

 

The world is full of evils, necessary no

doubt as well as unnecessary. What seems

unfortunate is when an evil becomes

lodged in the interior of a system and

proceeds to replicate.

 

But I believe that all it takes is for

people to change their minds.

 

 

To practice (legally), I must pass

> the boards. To pass the boards requires learning how to think the

> way the test thinks. The grief of this scenario is that my ability

> to

> pass this test in no way reflects my ability. I generally score

high

> on all of my tests, but walk away from them wondering what the

value

> of that is in the greater scheme of things. The high score does

not

> establish a meaningful dialogue between me and a teacher; it does

not

> convey whether I've missed some subtlety or expressed the beginning

> of wisdom.

>

> I've often thought the best way around this would be for teachers

to

> teach as if the boards did not exist, as you suggest, while still

> providing opportunity for us to prepare for the boards. Our grades

> could be based on criteria more meaningful to our growth as

> professionals and we could practice for the boards outside of

class -

> a kind of test-skills homework - on mock standardized tests. I'm

> willing to bet this would actually be more rigorous for students

and

> more fulfilling for teachers.

 

I don't think I actually suggested that

teachers should teach as if the boards

did not exist. I don't think education

should be conducted on a let's pretend

basis. It should definitely prepare

people to deal with the real world.

 

But I think that the emphasis should be

placed on producing superior students

who can become superior doctors. If the

aim is lower, can the results be better?

 

I think that your suggestion makes sense.

Students who have spent four or five

years becoming full familiar

with Chinese medical terms, theories,

methods, substances, etc. in a context

that integrates theory and practice and

prepares them for the vagaries of clinical

reality should be able to master

in fairly short order whatever rigor

the exam presents.

 

If, on the other hand, one spends four

or five years learning primarily to pass

an exam and does not become familiar

with the actuality of treating patients

in volume great enough to begin to build

and sustain a successful practice, then

what has one really gained from the whole

process?

 

I think that schools should monitor

and emphasize in their self-evaluation

processes statistics that reflect the

survival rate of their graduates rather

than focusing solely on pass rates on

exams.

 

The exam itself is necessary. I won't

even take a stand on whether or not it's

evil. But it is not the aim of the education.

One get's a license in order to do something

and if one cannot proceed to do that thing

the getting and holding of the license

has no meaning whatsoever.

 

 

>> A mentor is someone wiser and more experienced than me who is

willing

> to pay attention and contribute to my progress in a focused,

> individualized way. Even more than that, a mentor is someone who

> craves fertile ground for all they've cultivated in their own

> learning - a teacher looking for someone who can add longevity to

his

> own achievements. This is how the relationship becomes reciprocal -

 

> not merely the flow of ideas down a slope from A to B, but a way of

> extending the life expectancy of a life's work.

>

> In real life, this can range from the very simple to the dramatic

> potential requiring a musical score of grand proportions.

Forsaking

> the grand, I'd settle for a mentor who simply looks twice, is

willing

> to invest in me personally, provides a meaningful environment in

> which it is not only SAFE to make mistakes but encouraged, and

> actively seeks to enhance my successes.

 

Have you expressed this to potential mentors

only to have it rejected? It sounds like the

kind of thing that any teacher would love

to hear.

>

> The intern--supervisor relationship in the clinic provides this to

> some degree. What downgrades it, in my opinion, is the

acceleration

> and speed at which we work and interact. A supervisor juggles a

> handful of interns and another handful of assistants simultaneously

> as patients come and go over a four hour period. It flies by and

the

> opportunities for cultivation are wedged in minute-sized time-

slots.

> After fourteen weeks, the shifts change and most interns begin

again

> with new supervisors. What's missing in this scenario is the sense

> of having a special guide, someone to whom you'll later refer

as " my

> teacher. "

 

I think I get the picture you're drawing.

I read in a book called 80 Characters on Qi Gong

by Yan Xin a little essay on " teacher. " The

gist of it was that a good student considers

everybody to be his or her teacher. It's stuck

with me as useful idea because it not only

helps sustain a state of mind that is

receptive to learning, regardless of the

source, but it prepares for the possibility

if not the likelihood that such a special

indivdiual may not happen along.

 

 

 

I often feel an odd mixture of joy and envy when

> professors begin sentences with " my teacher used to say,.... "

 

> for example, can trace the roots of his theories about herb dosage

> back to his teacher, a woman who learned from her family mentor from

> a

> very young age. There's a wealth in that connection that is

> underestimated by our hurry-up-and-go society.

 

We pay endlessly for our conveniences.

 

> One very simple remedy might be the establishment of office hours,

> paid of course. As an undergrad at a large university, visiting a

> professor in his office, even for 15 minutes of conversation, was

> very inspiring to me. This is different than speaking with a

> professor after class or during breaks when a whole crowd of

students

> are buzzing about with their different agendas. The scheduled

office

> hours open a door for students seeking mentors - seeking deeper

> attention. A scheduled meeting also honors the boundaries between

> students and teachers, preventing the interaction from becoming

> draining. Some of my university professors made the visits a

> mandatory component of their exams so they could directly assess

how

> well the student was processing the material. Establishing office

> hours for our teachers today would add significant dimension to our

> program.

 

Now there's a revolutionary idea.

 

>

> Beyond graduation, I don't know. As Frances said, it might feel

like

> ants arriving at a picnic once the caps and gowns come off. I'm

not

> sure how one particular ant would be able to single herself out and

> attract a mentor. That is where the " elders " of this group come in

> (referring not to age, but to depth of experience!). How would you

> make yourselves available? Under what circumstances would it be

> worth it to you? How much time would be enough of an investment to

> extend your life's work?

 

My attitude is that we all study together.

We're all in the same boat.

 

Row.

 

 

>

> Or, it could be that a forum such as this one is the new face of

> mentorship. Perhaps the romantic ideals are not lost, but merely

> changing form?

 

 

As Yogi Bera said, The future ain't what

it used to be.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

I certainly don't have a " board -o-centric " approach to teaching. I

try to be aware of what is on state boards and national exams, but I

don't consider it my responsibility to simply prepare students for an

exam. While a student who passes a state exam exhibits 'minimum

competency' (and even that is debatable, given the erratic quality of

the California exam), passing that exam doesn't guarantee that they will

be able to handle the demands of a clinical practice.

 

I agree with Ken, we need to teach the medicine as best we can, and

encourage students to continue to study on their own. . . .forever.

 

 

On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 12:46 PM, burtonperez wrote:

 

> I've often thought the best way around this would be for teachers to

> teach as if the boards did not exist, as you suggest, while still

> providing opportunity for us to prepare for the boards.  Our grades

> could be based on criteria more meaningful to our growth as

> professionals and we could practice for the boards outside of class -

> a kind of test-skills homework - on mock standardized tests.  I'm

> willing to bet this would actually be more rigorous for students and

> more fulfilling for teachers.

[Guest guest]

Hi Laurie,

The CHA group is great and definitely fulfills many of

my mentoring needs, plus giving me sweeping overviews of our profession,

from time to time. This maybe the way things are heading, but there's

nothing quite like the direct experience of following a practitioner around

in their clinic. Take advantage of all opportunities to do this now

and during your first year or two, before you get busy with your own practice.

Frances

burtonperez wrote:

Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:03:07

-0500

Frances Gander <fgander

Re: Re: treatment of cancer patients

Fances wrote:

>Laurie,

>Many of us may be willing to mentor new grads,

>but due to the enormous numbers of students being

>graduated each year, the pressures of merely

>maintaining our practices demands most of our energies.

This is the reality.

The field is growing rapidly; the ratio of deeply

experienced

practitioners to novices is tipping out of balance.

What's

encouraging is the positive response from this herb

academy group.

It's obvious many of you have a mentoring instinct

and a desire to

add to the quality and growth of our profession by

sharing your

experience and knowledge. The expanding student

population may tend

to overwhelm those instincts, or make it difficult

to act on them.

However, not every student is inherently worthy of

mentorship - the

student has to earn such a commitment and invite

it. The

relationship

should be reciprocal. There may actually be

sufficient mentors to go

around, but it's become more competitive for the

serious student to

gain their investment.

Laurie