Hep c tongue and blood thinner, heparin vs coumadin

February 24, 2002

if the materials you found in the drug interaction software had

to do with the interaction of herbs with heparin, that might be a

different scenario. I believe heparin can only be given in a hospital

setting; it is given via IV in many cases. I do not believe it is

meant for long term administration. (And Alan, a PT would not monitor

the effects of heparin, but the patients you treat are probably not on

it).

However, it seems that any elderly patient who has had a stroke or TIA

will be put on coumadin. Yet, moving blood is very important in some

of these disorders. And with the little I've seen, the patients on

coumadin do have blood stasis. Those purple blotches they get

certainly would seem to indicate blood stasis.(although it could be

argued the Sp is no longer strong enough to hold the blood in the vessels)

In any case, it helps to know that wu ling zi is too strong. And

ofcourse, it is much better if the cardiologist is aware of the

possible changes in the patient's status due to the use of herbs. But

someone who comes in with angina pectoris, but has a strong

constitution, a forceful pulse, and is on coumadin, how many of you

would feel ok using a formula like Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang? Would you

reduce the Tao Ren?

> >

> > Perhaps I am overly cautious in this regard, but I think any of

these

> > herbs can potentiate anticoagulants like heparin, possibly leading

to a

> > dangerous bleeding episode. I think when I did research for a

drug/

> > herb interaction software, I came across abstracts to support this

> > idea. I will see if I can find the abstracts on my hard drive. I

> > believe John Chen and Subhuti Dharmananda also advise against

this.

> >

>

> >

>

> >

> > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

> > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

> > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a

variety

> > of professional services, including board approved online

continuing

> > education.

> >

February 25, 2002

heparin, that might be adifferent scenario. I believe heparin can only be given in a hospitalsetting; it is given via IV in many cases.

>>>It can also be given IM or some Dr use it for TOS at the thoracic inlet. So you can see it in the outpatient population. I have used blood movers for many years in patient on various blood thinners w/out any problems. Of course I will only do this if the patient get a friquent PT times or until the patient is stable

Alon

February 26, 2002

Alon, I was not aware of the possibility of heparin in the outpatient

population. Thanks for the heads up.

Alon, be sure your heparin patients are getting a PTT, not a protime.

The protime (PT) will only be affected if the PTT is grossly abnormal.

The protime measures the effects of coumadin only.

I hope to continue to use blood movers as well in that population,

provided I can get more guidance about judicious administration.

Regards, Gabrielle

- In , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> heparin, that might be a

> different scenario. I believe heparin can only be given in a

hospital

> setting; it is given via IV in many cases.

> >>>It can also be given IM or some Dr use it for TOS at the

thoracic inlet. So you can see it in the outpatient population. I

have used blood movers for many years in patient on various blood

thinners w/out any problems. Of course I will only do this if the

patient get a friquent PT times or until the patient is stable

> Alon

February 26, 2002

PTT

>>>Correct

-

gabriellemathieu

Tuesday, February 26, 2002 3:31 PM

Re: Hep c tongue and blood thinner, heparin vs coumadin

Alon, I was not aware of the possibility of heparin in the outpatientpopulation. Thanks for the heads up.Alon, be sure your heparin patients are getting a PTT, not a protime.The protime (PT) will only be affected if the PTT is grossly abnormal.The protime measures the effects of coumadin only.I hope to continue to use blood movers as well in that population, provided I can get more guidance about judicious administration.Regards, Gabrielle- In , "ALON MARCUS" <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:> heparin, that might be a> different scenario. I believe heparin can only be given in a hospital> setting; it is given via IV in many cases.> >>>It can also be given IM or some Dr use it for TOS at the thoracic inlet. So you can see it in the outpatient population. I have used blood movers for many years in patient on various blood thinners w/out any problems. Of course I will only do this if the patient get a friquent PT times or until the patient is stable> AlonChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.