Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 pemachophel2001 wrote: > Huang Qi raises the BP if used in > amounts of less than 30g p.d. but lowers the BP when used at 30g and > more (up to 60g p.d.). Has anyone else ever heard/read this? Does > anyone have any experience with this? I can't answer the issue about Huang Qi, but I have heard of Zhi Shi being used in cases of threatened abortion. In small doses, it has a download directionality, but in large dosages it can hold things up. The theory behind that was ultimate yin becomes yang. Something that directs downward will begin to direct upward at one point. Seems like something similar is being applied to Huang Qi. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 Dear Bob, I know nothing of using large doses of huang qi to lower BP but prehaps it is of tangential interest that, as far as I have found, there is no caution against using huang qi in large amounts in kidney disease where, of course, hypertension is a frequent component,eg I have an article in front of me from Sichuan Zhong Yi on treating albuminuria where all cases, which included 5 with high blood pressure, were given 30g of huang qi daily. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2002 Report Share Posted March 28, 2002 I am curious - are you talking about raw or prepared Astragalus (huang qi)? Could this dose related function of Astragalus be related with the herbs diuretic action? Greg Z pemachophel2001 <pemachophel2001 wrote: All,Recently I was talking with a Chinese doctor trained in Chengdu. Seemed pretty knowledgable. Definitely was into pattern discrimination and was not into disease-based prescribing. We were talking about qi vacuity hypertension. I have never seen a case of a pure qi vacuity hypertension. However, there can be a liver-spleen disharmony with depressive heat, can be a heart-gallbladder qi timidity with or without depressive heat, can be a qi and yin vacuity, can be a spleen qi vacuity with phlegm turbidity. In any case, she uses Radix Astragali Membranacei (Huang Qi) to treat the qi vacuity part of these mixed vacuity/repletion patterns if the patient is fatigued as one of their symptoms. Ok, that did not surprise me. I have seen other Chinese doctors also use Huang Qi for/with hypertension in qi vacuity patients, and there are a number of hypertension protocols in the Chinese research literature that include Huang Qi. The thing that I would like to ask others on this discussion group is this: According to this young woman (at least she was younger than me), Huang Qi raises the BP if used in amounts of less than 30g p.d. but lowers the BP when used at 30g and more (up to 60g p.d.). Has anyone else ever heard/read this? Does anyone have any experience with this? If this is true, it seems like an important thing to know. In my personal experience, other Chinese docs I have worked with have used 15g p.d. for the qi vacuity component of hypertension.BobChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Bob, Was this dosage in reference to using it as a single medicinal or in a Formula.. Obviously if in a formula this would be extremely dependent on the other herbs... --JAson pemachophel2001 [pemachophel2001] Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:35 AM Astragalus & hypertension All, Recently I was talking with a Chinese doctor trained in Chengdu. Seemed pretty knowledgable. Definitely was into pattern discrimination and was not into disease-based prescribing. We were talking about qi vacuity hypertension. I have never seen a case of a pure qi vacuity hypertension. However, there can be a liver-spleen disharmony with depressive heat, can be a heart-gallbladder qi timidity with or without depressive heat, can be a qi and yin vacuity, can be a spleen qi vacuity with phlegm turbidity. In any case, she uses Radix Astragali Membranacei (Huang Qi) to treat the qi vacuity part of these mixed vacuity/repletion patterns if the patient is fatigued as one of their symptoms. Ok, that did not surprise me. I have seen other Chinese doctors also use Huang Qi for/with hypertension in qi vacuity patients, and there are a number of hypertension protocols in the Chinese research literature that include Huang Qi. The thing that I would like to ask others on this discussion group is this: According to this young woman (at least she was younger than me), Huang Qi raises the BP if used in amounts of less than 30g p.d. but lowers the BP when used at 30g and more (up to 60g p.d.). Has anyone else ever heard/read this? Does anyone have any experience with this? If this is true, it seems like an important thing to know. In my personal experience, other Chinese docs I have worked with have used 15g p.d. for the qi vacuity component of hypertension. Bob Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 Jason, In a formula. Bob , " " <@o...> wrote: > Bob, > Was this dosage in reference to using it as a single medicinal > or in a Formula.. Obviously if in a formula this would be extremely > dependent on the other herbs... > > --JAson > > > pemachophel2001 [pemachophel2001] > Thursday, March 28, 2002 7:35 AM > > Astragalus & hypertension > > All, > > Recently I was talking with a Chinese doctor trained in Chengdu. > Seemed pretty knowledgable. Definitely was into pattern discrimination > and was not into disease-based prescribing. We were talking about qi > vacuity hypertension. I have never seen a case of a pure qi vacuity > hypertension. However, there can be a liver-spleen disharmony with > depressive heat, can be a heart-gallbladder qi timidity with or > without depressive heat, can be a qi and yin vacuity, can be a spleen > qi vacuity with phlegm turbidity. In any case, she uses Radix > Astragali Membranacei (Huang Qi) to treat the qi vacuity part of these > mixed vacuity/repletion patterns if the patient is fatigued as one of > their symptoms. > > Ok, that did not surprise me. I have seen other Chinese doctors also > use Huang Qi for/with hypertension in qi vacuity patients, and there > are a number of hypertension protocols in the Chinese research > literature that include Huang Qi. The thing that I would like to ask > others on this discussion group is this: According to this young woman > (at least she was younger than me), Huang Qi raises the BP if used in > amounts of less than 30g p.d. but lowers the BP when used at 30g and > more (up to 60g p.d.). Has anyone else ever heard/read this? Does > anyone have any experience with this? If this is true, it seems like > an important thing to know. In my personal experience, other Chinese > docs I have worked with have used 15g p.d. for the qi vacuity > component of hypertension. > > Bob > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of > professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2002 Report Share Posted April 1, 2002 Greg, Uncooked (sheng). Bob , Greg Zimmerman <gregzlac2002> wrote: > > I am curious - are you talking about raw or prepared Astragalus (huang qi)? Could this dose related function of Astragalus be related with the herbs diuretic action? > Greg Z > pemachophel2001 <pemachophel2001> wrote: All, > > Recently I was talking with a Chinese doctor trained in Chengdu. > Seemed pretty knowledgable. Definitely was into pattern discrimination > and was not into disease-based prescribing. We were talking about qi > vacuity hypertension. I have never seen a case of a pure qi vacuity > hypertension. However, there can be a liver-spleen disharmony with > depressive heat, can be a heart-gallbladder qi timidity with or > without depressive heat, can be a qi and yin vacuity, can be a spleen > qi vacuity with phlegm turbidity. In any case, she uses Radix > Astragali Membranacei (Huang Qi) to treat the qi vacuity part of these > mixed vacuity/repletion patterns if the patient is fatigued as one of > their symptoms. > > Ok, that did not surprise me. I have seen other Chinese doctors also > use Huang Qi for/with hypertension in qi vacuity patients, and there > are a number of hypertension protocols in the Chinese research > literature that include Huang Qi. The thing that I would like to ask > others on this discussion group is this: According to this young woman > (at least she was younger than me), Huang Qi raises the BP if used in > amounts of less than 30g p.d. but lowers the BP when used at 30g and > more (up to 60g p.d.). Has anyone else ever heard/read this? Does > anyone have any experience with this? If this is true, it seems like > an important thing to know. In my personal experience, other Chinese > docs I have worked with have used 15g p.d. for the qi vacuity > component of hypertension. > > Bob > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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