Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 , " gabriellemathieu " <gabriellemathieu> wrote: > > BTW, interesting commentary on the use of chai hu vs he haun pi in a > patient with manic tendencies. Do you think it's becuase the chai hu > is too dispersing and ascending? Shouldn't the mu li balance it? > A few years ago when Steve Clavey lectured in England on gynaecology he talked about his fondness for he huan pi- he called himself the 'he huan pi kid'- and its sometime substitution for chai hu. So a number of us started regularly using it in place of chai hu where one wanted to resolve depression and quiet the heart. I think it is fair to say that there was disapointment about its efficacy in both regards. Are there opinions on this? Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 Simon, It's my belief that Flos Albizziae Julibrissinis (He Huan Hua) is better for liver depression qi stagnation plus disquietude of the spirit, and Cortex Albizziae Julibrissinis (He Huan Pi) is better for blood stasis plus disquietude of the spirit. Other Radix Bupleuri (Chai Hu) substitutes you might consider are Herba Artemisiae Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), which does not plunder yin, and Herba Centellae Asiatica (Qi Xue Cao), a.k.a. Gotu Cola. This second substitution is especially useful when treating emotional depression and disquietude of the spirit. For those in the U.S., if you wanted to experiment with Qi Xue Cao, you can buy this herb certified organic in bulk at $12.05 per pound from Frontier Natural Products Co-op at 1-800-669-3275. Yet another qi-rectifying medicinal to keep in mind is Lignum Aquilariae Agallochae (Chen Xiang), a main psychiatric herb in Tibetan medicine. I just translated an article yesterday wherein the author used Chen Xiang to rectify the qi in patients with marked psycho-emotional disturbance. I believe this article will be posted today or by the end of the week at least at www.chinesemedicalpsychiatry.com. If I remember correctly, it is on the treatment of mania with modified Qing Gong Tang (Clear the Palace Decoction). Bob , " dallaskinguk " <dallasking@b...> wrote: > , " gabriellemathieu " > <gabriellemathieu> wrote: > > > > > BTW, interesting commentary on the use of chai hu vs he haun pi in > a > > patient with manic tendencies. Do you think it's becuase the chai > hu > > is too dispersing and ascending? Shouldn't the mu li balance it? > > > > A few years ago when Steve Clavey lectured in England on > gynaecology he talked about his fondness for he huan pi- he called > himself the 'he huan pi kid'- and its sometime substitution for chai > hu. So a number of us started regularly using it in place of chai hu > where one wanted to resolve depression and quiet the heart. I think > it is fair to say that there was disapointment about its efficacy in > both regards. Are there opinions on this? > > Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 pemachophel2001 wrote: > Yet another qi-rectifying medicinal to keep in mind is Lignum > Aquilariae Agallochae (Chen Xiang), a main psychiatric herb in Tibetan > medicine. I've always wanted to invest in some Chen Xiang to be included in Si Mo Tang for my Liver/Stomach disharmony patients. But its $40 for 100 grams of the ground up herb, not even the extract. Since I only use powders and capsules, I've had to hold off on this herb. Does anybody have any positive experiences with this herb used ground up in this fashion? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > > I've always wanted to invest in some Chen Xiang to be included in Si Mo > Tang for my Liver/Stomach disharmony patients. FYI, I believe chen xiang is one of the herbs that is often substituted with a species other than aquilaria. Ask springwind about this. If true, much chen xiang in products on the market may be bogus anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 > I've always wanted to invest in some Chen Xiang to be included in Si Mo > Tang for my Liver/Stomach disharmony patients. But its $40 for 100 grams > of the ground up herb, not even the extract. Since I only use powders > and capsules, I've had to hold off on this herb. -- Who are you buying your herbs from? Mayway carries Chen Xiang for $18.00/pound powdered, and $4.50 per pound whole. Your supplier must be offering the highest grade of Chen Xiang which is, admittedly, very expensive. However, I don't think you need to use the highest grade. I have used Chen Xiang in its whole form in decoction for years. Sorry, I've never used it powdered. It also makes an excellent incense for quieting the spirit. It is a main ingredient in Tibetan incense for that purpose. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 pemachophel2001 wrote: > -- Who are you buying your herbs from? Blue Light Inc. of Ithica, NY. Mayway carries Chen Xiang for > $18.00/pound powdered, and $4.50 per pound whole. Your supplier must > be offering the highest grade of Chen Xiang which is, admittedly, very > expensive. However, I don't think you need to use the highest grade. Thanks, I'll look into this. I like the incense idea too. > > I have used Chen Xiang in its whole form in decoction for years. > Sorry, I've never used it powdered. > > It also makes an excellent incense for quieting the spirit. It is a > main ingredient in Tibetan incense for that purpose. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2002 Report Share Posted April 10, 2002 Al, I do use it from KPC and have been quite happy. The few times I have run out I have seen a definite difference in the efficacy of formulae. Mark - " Al Stone " <alstone Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:26 PM Re: Re: he huan pi > > > pemachophel2001 wrote: > > > Yet another qi-rectifying medicinal to keep in mind is Lignum > > Aquilariae Agallochae (Chen Xiang), a main psychiatric herb in Tibetan > > medicine. > > I've always wanted to invest in some Chen Xiang to be included in Si Mo > Tang for my Liver/Stomach disharmony patients. But its $40 for 100 grams > of the ground up herb, not even the extract. Since I only use powders > and capsules, I've had to hold off on this herb. > > Does anybody have any positive experiences with this herb used ground up > in this fashion? > > -- > Al Stone L.Ac. > <AlStone > http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2002 Report Share Posted April 11, 2002 Thank you Bob, I will keep that in mind about guta kola. In the student clinic, we have had mixed results treating depression. However I recently substituted He Huan Hua for He Huan pi in a friends fornula, which I also prepare. It has a wonderful fragrant smell. Kind of reminds me of Mei Gua Hua (sp?)-roseflower buds. These smells just seem to loosen the liver.(like the explanation of what Bai Shao does, except Bai Shao doesn't have that smell) I can't think of a better way to explain it. Simon, when I see someone in clinic I usually use Chai Hu and He Huan Pi and Yu Jin altogether, if they are not deficient. I guess it's because I'm beginning, and I tend to use all the herbs I can think of in a given category (within reason) in the hopes that one of them will do the trick. The last depression patient we treated got so depressed despite our care I almost started crying with her. , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > Simon, > > It's my belief that Flos Albizziae Julibrissinis (He Huan Hua) is > better for liver depression qi stagnation plus disquietude of the > spirit, and Cortex Albizziae Julibrissinis (He Huan Pi) is better for > blood stasis plus disquietude of the spirit. > > Other Radix Bupleuri (Chai Hu) substitutes you might consider are > Herba Artemisiae Capillaris (Yin Chen Hao), which does not plunder > yin, and Herba Centellae Asiatica (Qi Xue Cao), a.k.a. Gotu Cola. This > second substitution is especially useful when treating emotional > depression and disquietude of the spirit. For those in the U.S., if > you wanted to experiment with Qi Xue Cao, you can buy this herb > certified organic in bulk at $12.05 per pound from Frontier Natural > Products Co-op at 1-800-669-3275. > > Yet another qi-rectifying medicinal to keep in mind is Lignum > Aquilariae Agallochae (Chen Xiang), a main psychiatric herb in Tibetan > medicine. I just translated an article yesterday wherein the author > used Chen Xiang to rectify the qi in patients with marked > psycho-emotional disturbance. I believe this article will be posted > today or by the end of the week at least at > www.chinesemedicalpsychiatry.com. If I remember correctly, it is on > the treatment of mania with modified Qing Gong Tang (Clear the Palace > Decoction). > > Bob > > , " dallaskinguk " <dallasking@b...> > wrote: > > , " gabriellemathieu " > > <gabriellemathieu> wrote: > > > > > > > > BTW, interesting commentary on the use of chai hu vs he haun pi in > > a > > > patient with manic tendencies. Do you think it's becuase the chai > > hu > > > is too dispersing and ascending? Shouldn't the mu li balance it? > > > > > > > A few years ago when Steve Clavey lectured in England on > > gynaecology he talked about his fondness for he huan pi- he called > > himself the 'he huan pi kid'- and its sometime substitution for chai > > hu. So a number of us started regularly using it in place of chai hu > > where one wanted to resolve depression and quiet the heart. I think > > it is fair to say that there was disapointment about its efficacy in > > both regards. Are there opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 , " gabriellemathieu " <gabriellemathieu> wrote: > Thank you Bob, I will keep that in mind about guta kola. In the > student clinic, we have had mixed results treating depression. However > I recently substituted He Huan Hua for He Huan pi in a friends > fornula, which I also prepare. It has a wonderful fragrant smell. Kind > of reminds me of Mei Gua Hua (sp?)-roseflower buds. These smells just > seem to loosen the liver.(like the explanation of what Bai Shao does, > except Bai Shao doesn't have that smell) I can't think of a better way > to explain it. Also thank you Bob, Gabrielle, my follow up question was going to be about Mei Gui Hua; in the lectures by Steve Clavey, which I mentioned, he promoted He Huan Pi as if there were a category of herbs which promote happiness as distinct from just coursing the qi , resolving depression etc. Following the disapointment with its effect in achieving this holy grail at least 3 of us started using Mei Gui Hua regularly. I like it alot, sometimes as a substitute, mostly as an addition to eg Chai Hu and sometimes by itself or with Fo Shou Gan as a tea for mild liver depression. Other thoughts on this would be interesting to me. if you and your collegues find He Huan Pi effective for resolving depression and quieting the heart, whilst I and some others don't, do you think this could be to do with difference in powders and whole herbs? I have only used it as whole herb so I wonder if it might be one of those, ( I think few) cases where powders seem much more potent. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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