Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 How does one explain herb functions without using herbs' properties: nature, taste, and channels entered? One can say it is just experience, but I find the taste and channels entered indispensable in explaining functions. An example is Baihu Tang: Shigao, Zhimu, Zhigancao, Gengmi, the representative formula for Yangming Stomach Channel syndrome. When an evil moves from taiyang to yangming, it penetrates from the exterior to the interior. However, there are degrees of the interior. In this case, there is only one of the four cardinal signs (great sweating, great pulse, great thirst, great fever) that is specifically interior: great thrist, a stomach organ symptom. The rest are related to the channel. This is a case of insubstantial heat in the exterior with some interior heat, and one wants mainly to disperse and not drain. Shigao is sweet, acid and cold, (not bitter.) and enters to St channel. The acrid taste disperses the insubstantial heat, the cold qi cools the heat. Zhimu is bitter sweet and cold. It drains heat from the stomach organ (cold bitter), but nourishes yin (sweet and cold.) The other sweet herbs nourish the yin, in addition to other functions. When heat enters the yangming large intestine organ, it becomes substantial heat which must be drained, it cannot be dispersed or sweated out. In this case the representative formula is Da Cheng Qi Tang. Dahuang, the principle herb, is bitter and enters the LI, ST etc. The bitter taste descends, the cold nature clears heat. The functions of the other herbs in this formula can also be rationalized by nature, taste, and channel. I find that that the use of particular herbs, instead of other herbs similar in function, in many formulas can be explained by their peculiarities of taste and channels entered. My feeling is that if one knew all the properties of an herb: part of the plant used, season harvested, area grown in, color, etc., etc., one could explain all the herb's functions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 My feeling is that if > one knew all the properties of an herb: part of the plant used, > season harvested, area grown in, color, etc., etc., one could explain > all the herb's functions. After 23 years of studying and doing this medicine, that is not my experience. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 David: I find your remarks interesting and to the point. The way you think about forumulas here is the way we conceive of their design and actions. But, I suspect, it is a minority opinion; most practitioners think about 8-Principles and basic function. Jim Ramholz , " davidfrierman " <davidfrierman@h...> wrote: > How does one explain herb functions without using herbs' properties: > nature, taste, and channels entered? One can say it is just > experience, but I find the taste and channels entered indispensable > in explaining functions. An example is Baihu Tang: Shigao, Zhimu, > Zhigancao, Gengmi, the representative formula for Yangming Stomach > Channel syndrome. When an evil moves from taiyang to yangming, it > penetrates from the exterior to the interior. However, there are > degrees of the interior. In this case, there is only one of the four > cardinal signs (great sweating, great pulse, great thirst, great > fever) that is specifically interior: great thrist, a stomach organ > symptom. The rest are related to the channel. This is a case of > insubstantial heat in the exterior with some interior heat, and one > wants mainly to disperse and not drain. Shigao is sweet, acid and > cold, (not bitter.) and enters to St channel. The acrid taste > disperses the insubstantial heat, the cold qi cools the heat. Zhimu > is bitter sweet and cold. It drains heat from the stomach organ > (cold bitter), but nourishes yin (sweet and cold.) The other sweet > herbs nourish the yin, in addition to other functions. When heat > enters the yangming large intestine organ, it becomes substantial > heat which must be drained, it cannot be dispersed or sweated out. > In this case the representative formula is Da Cheng Qi Tang. > Dahuang, the principle herb, is bitter and enters the LI, ST etc. > The bitter taste descends, the cold nature clears heat. The > functions of the other herbs in this formula can also be rationalized > by nature, taste, and channel. > I find that that the use of particular herbs, instead of other herbs > similar in function, in many formulas can be explained by their > peculiarities of taste and channels entered. My feeling is that if > one knew all the properties of an herb: part of the plant used, > season harvested, area grown in, color, etc., etc., one could explain > all the herb's functions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2002 Report Share Posted April 12, 2002 Jim, David > > I find your remarks interesting and to the point. The way you think > about forumulas here is the way we conceive of their design and > actions. But, I suspect, it is a minority opinion; most > practitioners think about 8-Principles and basic function. > I quite agree, and I see in this discussion a reflection of the fact that under the general rubric of Chinese medicine there are numerous modes of thinking available. Some find a particular approach sensible and put it to use effectively. Others favor differing methods of analysis and therapeutics. What raised a cautionary flag for me earlier in the thread was the presentation of the idea that a whole set of tools, a whole mode of thinking if you will, was suggested to be of virtually no value. Although Bob said he'd never edit it out of a recompilation of medical classics, labeling it as useless information accomplishes the same end, i.e. people pay it no attention and in time it disappears from people's view. So much of this kind of thing has already happened in the transmission and reception of the subject in English that it is noteworthy whenever anyone suggests that we prune it back a little more. I think it's important that we realize that we are not only receipients of this knowledge, we are the people who will pass it on to future generations. This doesn't mean that we should not edit it and subject it to the critical scrutiny of what works and what does not. But I question whether anyone working in English language environments has anywhere near the scope and depth of knowledge to make truly informed decisions as to what should constitute the forward transmission of the subject. That's why I'm such a strong advocate for the development of approaches to study and research that open these processes up to a full utilization of the accumulated knowledge base of the subject. There is a great deal of work to be done to bring the group consciousness to a level where such issues can be responsibly decided and where effective actions can be conceived and undertaken to ensure that the subject thrives in the future. This really ought to be of concern to anyone who is a practicing professional, as to a very definite degree, we're talking about your personal future. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2002 Report Share Posted April 13, 2002 , " pemachophel2001 " < pemachophel2001> wrote: > > After 23 years of studying and doing this medicine, that is not my > experience. > > Bob I still patiently await a case study to illustrate the critical importance of these ideas, NOT theory, philosophy, history, ad hominem attacks, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2002 Report Share Posted April 14, 2002 I strongly agree with this sentiment. In mainland China, there are committees to compile, edit and preserve the Chinese medical literature. I hope some day that we will begin to compile an exhaustive library on the subject before we begin to prune, edit or discard anything. As I've said before, the jury is still out. On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 10:19 PM, dragon90405 wrote: > This doesn't mean that we should not > edit it and subject it to the critical > scrutiny of what works and what does > not. But I question whether anyone > working in English language environments > has anywhere near the scope and depth of > knowledge to make truly informed decisions > as to what should constitute the forward > transmission of the subject. That's why > I'm such a strong advocate for the > development of approaches to study and > research that open these processes up > to a full utilization of the accumulated > knowledge base of the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.