Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 > medical Chinese language, classical source texts, more-in- depth pulse > diagnosis, or how to do more specific and complex pattern > differentiation. I had assumed that this Western push came from veteran American trained practitioners who felt that more Western training would give them more respect. The Chinese supervisors I work with are really the last to turn to Western ideas except to recognize a disease category. So I'm wondering if Todd's comments are from things he's heard or also his own conjectures. No big deal. The doctorate program is a little ludicrous to anyone with a Masters in China and has put their time in at a hospital. Speaking/writing Chinese will be the least of the ironies. doug However, this may be because the majority of the active members of the combined pro orgs are asian and already read chinese or korean and have ample access to classical texts. Many were already highly educated in Asia, thus their main concerns are scope of practice, not the issues you raise. Many of these asians were allowed an MD style practice in china, thus they want that here, too. the fact is that the asian and white L.Ac. communities have partially divergent needs and goals. I mean to make asians do a doc program that emphasizes teaching a language they already speak and to study texts they have been reading for years does seem somewhat ludicrous. so this program was clearly set up to meet the needs of non-asians. that is the crux of this whole conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 , wrote: > I had assumed that this Western push came from veteran American trained > practitioners who felt that more Western training would give them more > respect. The Chinese supervisors I work with are really the last to > turn to Western ideas except to recognize a disease category. So I'm > wondering if Todd's comments are from things he's heard or also his own > conjectures. No big deal. While CSOMA was very active in this legislation, there was a split between american practitioners on this matter, as evidenced on this list. However, all the asian organizations (chinese px, korean px, etc.) were 100% behind this and every chinese from the PRC I know, whether student or faculty, showed strong support. This has nothing to do with using western medicine in order to facilitate TCM dx. It is about political power pure and simple. those who legally make western diagnoses have far more clout than those who don't. they are legitmized with politicians, the public and insurers. that's all this is about. > > The doctorate program is a little ludicrous to anyone with a Masters in > China and has put their time in at a hospital. I do think that doctoral level TCM training should include both a healthy dose of language study (for those who need it), study of classic texts, but also hospital type training like the Mercy program in NY. Very sick people are in hospitals and we are very limited as an outpatient medicine. I wil be curious about the Bastyr program. Will they (or OCOM) require language and classics? How much western med? Bastyr has a naturopathic school oncampus and already works closely with NIH and local western med schools. Most of their students are also naturopaths, I think. So I suspect a pretty integrative bias. these are the first tow programs to be approved. anyone know the details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 This is a problem for the profession, because the short term gain of political clout behind biomedical diagnoses would be offset in the long run by the assimilation of the uniqueness of Chinese medicine into the biomedical world to its virtual disappearance. For a historic example, look at osteopathy. On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 11:23 AM, 1 wrote: > While CSOMA was very active in this legislation, there was a split > between american practitioners on this matter, as evidenced on > this list. However, all the asian organizations (chinese px, > korean px, etc.) were 100% behind this and every chinese from > the PRC I know, whether student or faculty, showed strong > support. This has nothing to do with using western medicine in > order to facilitate TCM dx. It is about political power pure and > simple. those who legally make western diagnoses have far > more clout than those who don't. they are legitmized with > politicians, the public and insurers. that's all this is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 , " " < zrosenbe@s...> wrote: For a historic example, > look at osteopathy. I thought that traditional osteopathy was experiencing a resurgence. many osteopathic schools and hospitals have dusted off their manipulation tables as they attempt to compete for students and patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 , " 1 " <@i...> wrote: This has nothing to do with using western medicine in > order to facilitate TCM dx. It is about political power pure and > simple. Those who legally make western diagnoses have far > more clout than those who don't. They are legitmized with > politicians, the public and insurers. That's all this is about. : While the push for Westernization and mainstreaming is an inevitable part of our developing history, it will help CM in the long run. When CM is more mainstreamed and new practitioners can make decent money on average ($100,000+), then new students will be able to justify and pay off student loans for more extensive schooling---and rationalize the increased demand in training in langauge, etc. If you can't pay off your student loans when you graduate, then the training you received is moot. But now we're looking at time in term of decades. Of course, we may be retired and gone by then. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 Traditional osteopathy is experiencing a resurgence. . but for decades it was primarily drugs for pain. Z " ev On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 02:22 PM, 1 wrote: > , " " < > zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > For a historic example, > > look at osteopathy. > > I thought that traditional osteopathy was experiencing a > resurgence. many osteopathic schools and hospitals have > dusted off their manipulation tables as they attempt to compete > for students and patients. > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 I thought that traditional osteopathy was experiencing a resurgence >>>They are. But still most DO's are not intrested in osteopathic med, only about 10% alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: Traditional osteopathy is experiencing a resurgence. . but for decades it was primarily drugs for pain. Z'ev: What is motivating the resurgence, and how is it recasting itself? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 18, 2002 Report Share Posted June 18, 2002 A few idealists who rediscovered the works of the founder (I forgot his name at the moment). It is recasting itself by rediscovering the benefits of subtle manipulation and its effects on cerebrospinal fluid (their own conceptions of) 'energy fields'. Craniosacral therapy is a recent development in this school of healing. Great stuff to experience. On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 07:44 PM, jramholz wrote: > , " " <zrosenbe@s...> > wrote: Traditional osteopathy is experiencing a resurgence. . but > for decades it was primarily drugs for pain. > > > Z'ev: > > What is motivating the resurgence, and how is it recasting itself? > > > Jim Ramholz > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 The founder of osteopathy was Andrew Taylor Still, and cranial osteopathy was founded i believe by William Sutherland. For an interesting look at the early days of osteopathy, see http://www.meridianinstitute.com/eamt/index.htm Herb content: the Cayce Herbal, Culbreth's Materia Medica, and The Indian Household Medicine Guide (by J.I. Lighthall, the " Great Indian Medicine Man " ) can all be found at the same site: http://www.meridianinstitute.com/echerb/Files/contents.html robert hayden kampo36 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > A few idealists who rediscovered the works of the founder (I forgot his > name at the moment). It is recasting itself by rediscovering the > benefits of subtle manipulation and its effects on cerebrospinal fluid > (their own conceptions of) 'energy fields'. Craniosacral therapy is a > recent development in this school of healing. Great stuff to experience. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > A few idealists who rediscovered the works of the founder (I forgot his > name at the moment). Are you referring to Upledger? His take on the CranioSacral work is a little different than " classic " ostepathy...but wonderful, gentle work. His institute teaches that and other forms of subtle work like Jean Pierre Baral's Visceral Manipulation. I find these forms of gentle bodywork combine very well with TCM. For more info look at: http://www.upledger.com Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 A few idealists who rediscovered the works of the founder (I forgot his name at the moment). It is recasting itself by rediscovering the benefits of subtle manipulation and its effects on cerebrospinal fluid (their own conceptions of) 'energy fields'. Craniosacral therapy is a recent development in this school of healing. Great stuff to experience.>>>>This is only one part of osteopathic med. It is a truly advanced and sophisticated system, the best as far as manual therapies. Unfortunately only a handful of DOs really know the full system Alon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2002 Report Share Posted June 19, 2002 founded i believe by William Sutherland.>>>Correct Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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