Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 > > Possible Drug Interactions: > > Research: > > * Stimulates interferon production I'm wondering where this informatiion about interferon comes from? Does it have the same effect as Chai Hu in this respect? > > * Jeffrey C. Yuen calls Cyperus rotundus a " Hun " herb; one which > > is used for dealing with the past or future. It can be used when > > we are frustrated that things are not turning out the way we'd planned. This pretty much defines Yuen's description of Liver Qi stagnation. Not pleased with the past, not pleased with the future. The liver is that road that leads us to those places gracefully. (my description) doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , wrote: > > > > > * Jeffrey C. Yuen calls Cyperus rotundus a " Hun " herb; one which > > > is used for dealing with the past or future. I'm wondering where this idea about xiang fu and the hun comes from. Kapchuk tends to use this type of terminology in describing a number of herbs in the kan product guide. However, as has become standard in our field, no proper glosses or citations are provided. I am not familiar with Yuen. does he provide citations or does he make it clear that his words are his alone if the latter is the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 I find it interesting that no one on the list has made any response to or comment on your request for citation or documentation that Cyperus is an ethereal soul med, yet there have been a number of speculative discussions about essence, yin, and yang. Bob , " 1 " <@i...> wrote: > , > wrote: > > > > > > > > > * Jeffrey C. Yuen calls Cyperus rotundus a " Hun " herb; one > which > > > > is used for dealing with the past or future. > > I'm wondering where this idea about xiang fu and the hun comes > from. Kapchuk tends to use this type of terminology in > describing a number of herbs in the kan product guide. > However, as has become standard in our field, no proper > glosses or citations are provided. I am not familiar with Yuen. > does he provide citations or does he make it clear that his words > are his alone if the latter is the case? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > I find it interesting that no one on the list has made any response to > or comment on your request for citation or documentation that Cyperus > is an ethereal soul med, yet there have been a number of speculative > discussions about essence, yin, and yang. > > Bob LOL... we can't get to the ethereal stuff yet, we're still trying to get the basics straight..... rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 , " pemachophel2001 " < pemachophel2001> wrote: yet there have been a number of speculative > discussions about essence, yin, and yang. > hopefully I have been clear that I am speculating or relating my best understanding of oral explanations from chinese teachers as well as the limited material available in english. And we have been asking for clarification from any on this list who are familiar with actual source material on this subject. obviously the only way to settle these matters is by accessing such source material. and that is clearly only possible if one can read chinese. becoming clear about these things has clinical relevance as they affect our selection of herbs when considered carefully. those who are more limited in their access to the sources at this time have no recourse but to share their understanding and see if others agree or if some clarity can be achieved through discussion. I find it quite unfortunate that the importance of chinese language was not even a consideration when I went to school. Now we find ourselves in practice ten years later lacking an important skill. Yet we still have to care for our patients. so we ask questions and hope for guidance till we can fly on our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 Actually, that was what I was trying to get at. Forgive me if the intent of my post was not clear. The fact that no one seems to care that so much information in the Western world of Chinese medicine is essentially hearsay is, I think, a bit of a problem in the on-going development of this practice in the U.S. I am not at all interested in the ethereal soul. I was commenting on the sort of discourse on the ethereal soul that occurred. Bob , " kampo36 " <kampo36> wrote: > , " pemachophel2001 " > <pemachophel2001> wrote: > > I find it interesting that no one on the list has made any response > to > > or comment on your request for citation or documentation that > Cyperus > > is an ethereal soul med, yet there have been a number of > speculative > > discussions about essence, yin, and yang. > > > > Bob > > LOL... we can't get to the ethereal stuff yet, we're still trying to > get the basics straight..... > > rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 I was not particularly criticizing the speculative discussion. I was using that discussion as a foil to implicitly criticize the lack of critical attention or response to the hearsay bandied about about Cyperus. I very much agree with your response about the underlying reason for the essence discussion. As a reader who has not participated in the essence discussion, seems to me the confusion is a function of not reading source materials in the original language. So I'm glad you bring that up. I, however, have said more than enough on this over the years. So I'll shut up. Bob , " 1 " <@i...> wrote: > , " pemachophel2001 " < > pemachophel2001> wrote: > > yet there have been a number of speculative > > discussions about essence, yin, and yang. > > > > hopefully I have been clear that I am speculating or relating my > best understanding of oral explanations from chinese teachers > as well as the limited material available in english. And we have > been asking for clarification from any on this list who are familiar > with actual source material on this subject. obviously the only > way to settle these matters is by accessing such source > material. and that is clearly only possible if one can read > chinese. becoming clear about these things has clinical > relevance as they affect our selection of herbs when considered > carefully. those who are more limited in their access to the > sources at this time have no recourse but to share their > understanding and see if others agree or if some clarity can be > achieved through discussion. I find it quite unfortunate that the > importance of chinese language was not even a consideration > when I went to school. Now we find ourselves in practice ten > years later lacking an important skill. Yet we still have to care for > our patients. so we ask questions and hope for guidance till we > can fly on our own. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 And the fact that something is written in Chinese make it legitimate? I thing we need to be careful here about so called Chinese sources to the same extent as we view modern western CM thinkers. For example much of the European acupuncture material is helpful even though it often has little to do with classical CM. I will repeat again, to me the fact that so much clinical information from modern china is not reliable and that when critically evaluated many conditions do not respond to methods that have been suggested in Chinese literature (both new and old) makes is so that to me at least a good western source (i.e. first hand experience) is as valuable as Chinese sources. I view it all with healthy scepticism. The bottom line is we need much more good clinical research. And Todd your point on xiang fu is a good one. How do you go about proving such a claim. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 In , " ALON MARCUS " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote: I will repeat again, to me the fact that so much clinical information from modern china is not reliable and that when critically evaluated many conditions do not respond to methods that have been suggested in Chinese literature (both new and old) makes is so that to me at least a good western source (i.e. first hand experience) is as valuable as Chinese sources. I view it all with healthy scepticism. The bottom line is we need much more good clinical research. Alon: Excellent point. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2002 Report Share Posted June 21, 2002 , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > Actually, that was what I was trying to get at. Forgive me if the > intent of my post was not clear. it was clear to me, anyway. The fact that no one seems to care > that so much information in the Western world of Chinese medicine is > essentially hearsay is, I think, a bit of a problem in the on-going > development of this practice in the U.S. not so much a fact as an appearance of fact. to say that no one seems to care is a bit of an exaggeration; obviously if NO ONE cared, we wouldn't be having this discussion. you're preaching to the choir, reverend sir. i happened to be surfing amazon.com, and i noticed that used copies of blue poppy's shen nong ben cao jing start at $62 and go up from there. so somebody's speculating that there will be an aftermarket audience looking for good translated source texts who are willing to pay >3x retail. i suppose i shouldn't be thumbing through my copy quite so vigorously... interesting that this price is advertised even though there seems to be sources (bp, redwing) who have it in stock -- how many did you print, if you don't mind my asking? robert hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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