Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 A student was puzzling over this conundrum the other day. Essence tonics are typically categorized as blood and yang tonics (actually most in Bensky are yang tonics). Kidney yin is considered a deeper level of vital fluids than the blood. Herbs categorized as Kidney yin tonics do not typically tonify essence Why are the herbs that work on a more superficial level (blood) more likely to tonify essence than kidney yin tonics? What is the relationship between blood, essence and kidney yin? In what ways is kidney yin different from essence? If essence is closer to blood and yin, why are most of the essence tonics yang tonics. Categorization is of course one issue here. If there was a separate essence tonic category, we could put all essence tonics in it and then delineate their other properties (whether it be to tonify yin, yang or blood). However perhaps that is not as important a clinical distinction a whether the herbs are cooling or warming. The blood tonics which are also essence tonics are ALSO yin tonics, just not categorized as such. Perhaps when tonifying essence, a neutral to warm herb makes more sense. for while essence may be more yin than yang, it also contains yang within it, just waiting to be liberated by the transforming power of the mingmen, as I was taught. So when we use liu wei di huang wan, are we tonifying yin, essence or both or does it make a difference? If one examines the indications for herbs classified as kidney yin tonics, they tend to center around heat and dryness symptoms or controlling rising yang and wind. With a few notable exceptions (nu zhen zi, gui ban - both of which, interestingly some sources consider to be essence tonics, as well), none of these herbs are used for low back pain or weak sore lower body. there is, of course, sang ji sheng, which arguably does not belong there in the first place and is sometimes classified as a dispel wind damp herb. Several are used for combined kidney/liver yin sx like blurred vision, dizziness (hei zhi ma, nu zhen zi, han lian cao, gui ban, bie jia - the latter two also control rising yang, which can be a factor in these sx). In contrast, the herbs described as essence tonics always address these classic kidney xu symptoms. Yet these symptoms are also textbook indications for kidney yin xu. It seems when deep level nourishment of kidney yin is called for, we turn to essence tonics. when we are addressing a more narrow range of symptoms, we turn to kidney yin tonics. Is this a fair generalization? Back to liu wei di huang wan, the kidney yin tonic with no kidney yin tonics. What did the original formulator have to say about his own formula. that would be illuminating. Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always been violently opposed by mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , <@i...> wrote: > > Back to liu wei di huang wan, the kidney yin tonic with no kidney yin > tonics. What did the original formulator have to say about his own > formula. that would be illuminating. > Perhaps we have a too-narrow modern definition of Yin supplementing. Didn't Dan-xi, founder of the " Yang Yin Pai " , primarily prescribe Si Wu Tang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , <@i...> wrote: > > If essence is closer to blood and yin, why are most of the essence tonics > yang tonics. > I'd hazard that even though essence is a Yin substance, its functions are more Yang -- growth & development, vitality, reproductive function (especially male -- character also indicates seminal fluid). rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , " kampo36 " <kampo36> wrote: > I'd hazard that even though essence is a Yin substance, its functions > are more Yang -- growth & development, vitality, reproductive > function (especially male -- character also indicates seminal fluid). good point. the functions are clearly yang. none of the essence tonics are cooling. some of them treat low grade heat (shu di, primarily), but this not their strength. If the presence of heat is characteristic of yin xu, then yin xu must clearly be something distinct from essence xu. So perhaps yin is closer to essence than blood, but the overly cooling nature of many yin tonics actually contraindicates them in essence xu without heat signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , " kampo36 " <kampo36> wrote: though essence is a Yin substance, its functions > are more Yang -- growth & development, vitality, reproductive > function (especially male -- character also indicates seminal fluid). > > rh But would you say that essence must be partially transformed into yang in order to carry out these functions. The untransformed essence doesn't actually do anything at all, does it? It is the the fuel, the reserves, the potential, the foundations of everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , " 1 " <@i...> wrote: > > But would you say that essence must be partially transformed > into yang in order to carry out these functions. The > untransformed essence doesn't actually do anything at all, does > it? It is the the fuel, the reserves, the potential, the foundations of > everything else. > Hmmm... I suppose essence is Yang within Yin maybe, perhaps it already has the potential stored within it as Yuan Qi (similar to the way that Ying Qi is the Yang part of the Blood). Otherwise what is it that transforms the Essence? If Essence is the foundation, it must transform itself, musn't it? Where is Ken Rose when you need him? >:0p robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 wrote: > Why are the herbs that work on a more superficial level (blood) more likely to tonify essence than kidney yin tonics? As I understand it, the relationship of Jing to Blood is much the same as the relationship of the Kidneys to the Liver. We begin with the statement that the Kidneys and the Liver have the same mother, or " source " as the translation may go. The Kidneys store the Jing, the Liver stores the Blood. Nourishing one tends to nourish the other. Blood transforms into Jing and Jing transforms into Blood. Examples include Gou Qi Zi, He Shou Wu, und Shu Di Huang -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2002 Report Share Posted June 20, 2002 , " kampo36 " <kampo36> wrote: If Essence is the > foundation, it must transform itself, musn't it? the original kernel of essence, the fertilized egg, must contain the spark of yang within itself. Is this the spark that becomes the mingmen in the fully formed body? Kidney water is represented by the water trigram, which indeed represents yang within yin. In the physical world, there is no pure yin or yang. yeah, where is Ken? I bet Bob knows the answer to this one, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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