Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 , " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: But, if you are willing to go into debt, write a good business plan to get financing, and create a well run clinic where you have several income streams (treatments, herbs, nutritional supplements, other goods and services, such as classes, books, videotapes, etc.), it's not that hard to live quite well with > an entirely " fee for service " practice. : I think Bob is right. But you have to be able to manage such a business by yourself, which is not easy, or hire a manager, which is smart. I think it is unfortunate that the state of California bars private corporations from owning clinics and employing acupuncturists. It makes sense that the marketing and management of our services could be best carried out by those with expertise in this area. I think many folks would gladly be an employee after they try their hand at the type of business Bob describes. So if you had to settle for 75K, healthplan and retirement, .... ??? Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always been violently opposed by mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Jim, I completely agree that word of mouth by satisfied customers is the best way to build a practice. However, new practitioners need to start somewhere, and often just depending on word of mouth is not enough. As for marketing and promotion, I don't think we can rely on state and national associations to do this for us. Sure, they should be doing this with our dues, but I think each of us also needs to take responsibility for marketing and promotion. If a person has a successful practice, they are more capable and, therefore, probably more willing to give more money to state and national associations. Marketing and promotion does not have to be sleazy. It all depends on the individual's integrity and the consciousness they bring to it. Marketing is nothing other than sharing the good news about acupuncture and Chinese medicine. Bob , " jramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > " pemachophel2001 " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > > Bob: > > I don't doubt that relentless selfpromotion would be personally > beneficial to a new practitioner. But I wanted to bring up that > being better in your field than the average---well educated, well > trained, well read in the profession's literature, etc.---also works > to increase your income. There's no better selfpromotion than people > feeling better right off the table the first time. So I would > encourage practitioners that by working harder to be more clincally > successful in this profession makes relentless advertising less > necesary. I use only word of mouth and a yellow pages ad, and I make > enough to not to need the 100K course. > > But I think your point has implications that are even more important > for the future of the profession at large. Isn't relentless > selfpromotion what made chiropractors mainstream? And not doing it > more often as a profession what is slowing the mainstreaming of our > profession? Do we have any coordinated advertising or selfpromotion > at the national level? Even well known, old brandname products > advertise and constantly reinvent their image for the public. > > > Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 Do you mean an acupuncturist cannot incorporate and then turn around and hire other acupuncturists to work for him/her? This is a hugely important question, because hiring other acupuncturists is one of the only ways to exceed a certain cap to possible earnings doing acupuncture. After all, a single practitioner can only see just some many patients per week. Could you explain this lawy more fully? Bob > " Great spirits have always been violently opposed by mediocre minds " -- > Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 , " pemachophel2001 " < pemachophel2001> wrote: > > > Do you mean an acupuncturist cannot incorporate and then turn around > and hire other acupuncturists to work for him/her? Could you explain this lawy more fully? I think an acupuncturist can form a medical corporation and hire other acupuncturists. But a layperson cannot own such a corporation, nor hire acupuncturists. I was proposing a model of private ownership of clinics where a wide range of companies could employ acupuncturists. HMO's already fit the bill, but there are plenty of private investors who are being kept out of this thriving market in California. I think I understand this correctly. Maybe Alon or Will knows more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 > > Marketing and promotion does not have to be sleazy. It all depends on > the individual's integrity and the consciousness they bring to it. > Marketing is nothing other than sharing the good news about > acupuncture and Chinese medicine. > > Bob > I agree, not sleazy! Recently I joined LeTip International and really love it *S* It is a great way for beginners to Market to real life people, who will then market for you... thus, getting the Qi flowing though word of mouth. I am letting LeTip work for me, in that I am transferring to a group that ha my " Power Partners " ie. chiropractor, dentist, colon therapist, personal injury lawyer. etc. It is a wonderful way to promote Acupuncture and Traditional ... most of the people I talk to " think " we only do pain. It is so fantastic to educate them on what we do in regards to internal medicine. I am a Beginner... just ended my first year and I love it!!! I am so grateful, for this journey and our medicine. Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 > If you're better than most at what you do, you should be able to go > into any market where the growth potential is presumably saturated > and claim a piece of that market share. I think the perception of who is a good practitioner may be different from the perspective of most patients versus a peer group of practitioners. If the patient feels you are ready to take a real interest in their long term health, without seeming overbearing, then you may have established one of the most critical elements of a successful practice. I had a practice in Seattle from 1985 thru 1994 that was fairly lucrative (gross between 120k and 145k per year), working only three long days per week. Many of my referrals came from other medical professionals outside the TCM profession, including many medical doctors. I worked in a very conventional medical office building with a nice office with front office reception that made other professionals feel comfortable referring their patients to me, made patients a bit more comfortable coming to see me that first time, and made many of them more willing to send their friends to my office. I've certainly seen practicing work well under other formats, and that was not the cheapest way to start out, but it did help build a busy practice. Referrals from other health practitioners can develop your business very quickly, especially if you coordinate your efforts with the care that they have been receiving from the referring practitioner so that the other practitioner does not feel they have lost touch with that patient. Another key factor from my standpoint is that a good practice will expand the market size for TCM based care rather than carve away a chunk of the existing market size. So even in Ketchum/Sun Valley, Idaho where I lived for 8 years, with a population of less than 5,000 and 7 TCM practitioners in town, people that had something to offer and presented it invitingly, were successful. Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 I think I understand this correctly. Maybe Alon or Will knows more.>>>I thought the limitation is only on Chiros. I never had to advertise, not even a yellow page add. But I think it is probably much more difficult for a new graduate to start a practice in the bay area these days. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2002 Report Share Posted July 16, 2002 letting LeTip >>>What this Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2002 Report Share Posted July 21, 2002 Todd- I did a little research and here's the deal in California: Acupuncturists may own a corporation and hire other acupuncturists, but nonacupuncturists may not. An acupuncturists may be part of a medical corporation, however, a medical corporation may only hire one acupuncturist per twenty medical docs. This is great - if hospitals are to fulfill the federal mandate to develop CAM programs and acupuncture is at the top of the CAM list, then acupuncturists must head the acupuncture units at hospitals in California. Will Morris I think an acupuncturist can form a medical corporation and hire other acupuncturists. But a layperson cannot own such a corporation, nor hire acupuncturists. I was proposing a model of private ownership of clinics where a wide range of companies could employ acupuncturists. HMO's already fit the bill, but there are plenty of private investors who are being kept out of this thriving market in California. I think I understand this correctly. Maybe Alon or Will knows more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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