Digest Number 1067 y Chinese language

July 30, 2002

Dear Ken sorry in the delay been of line.

Ken:

I am going to pass your questions and commentson to Nigel Wiseman and I'll letyou and other know what he has to say. I'd ask him to participatedirectly, but at the moment he'strying to keep his eyes on the roadof a project that we're working ontogether. Maybe he'll have moreinput if people here would beinterested, I'll let him know.Marco:

I for one would love (really appreciate in more scientific terms?) to hear from N. Wiseman

I also think it would be a good idea if possible for Wiseman to be at least d directly to the list, since just like the recent addition of Rey Tiquia it would be potentially a great source for discourse to continioue...

Ken:

If anyonehas information along these lines thatthey are willing to share, please contactme directly. I am working on plans fora meeting to be held in Beijing in 2003on the subject of Complexity and ChineseMedicine, and one of the things that I'dvery much like to incorporate into sucha meeting is information from such studies,if they exist.Marco:

Excuse the question but Complexity is that a outgrowth of so call system theories that I think Judith Faraquith mentions in Knowing practice (in the passing) and Volkers recent publish book does it deal with Complexity?

I for one would be interested in a historical summery and or update on where/how does cybernetics (biology-70's), system theories (80´s), information theories (90's) and Complexity (theories?) relate to one another and to Chinese medicine.

It is very possible that my summery is poor understanding and hence the request.

I think that someone named Stephen Birch and R. Hammerslang(?) are deeply involved with SAR society for acupuncture research. Ken you most likely know of them since they are also I think involved or regular contributors to the Journal you are editor of. I have not got (yet) Understanding Acupuncture by Birch and Felt but my impression is that they deal with above topic.

I think it is worth mentioning in case someone related to SAR reads this:

SAR website must surly take the price for the most boring web site in the western hemisphere specially considering such a vital topic - any chance of infusing it with Qi?

Ken:

This is one of the factors underlyingthe work currently being done on complexityand Chinese medicine. If you're intrestedin this, there is an article that has justrecently appeared in the current issueof Clinical Acupuncture and Oriental Medicinethat I wrote with Prof. Zhu Jian Ping ofthe China Academy of TCM on this topic.Marco:

hmm, can I say this? (it is always worth asking)

In Guatemala quite frankly the combination of promoting Chinese medicine at a more accessible level has render it difficult to keep up with books and journals since the pay here is proptionatly different. Is any one awer of grants that could allow for a development of a "libaery" or materials for a "school" of or ideally a clinic with materials. It probably is to early to mention this but in the long run I am aiming for a project which is self sustaining and developing but have allot to learn about such matters. (would like to say to snakeoil works will write an "update")

Ken:

How'd the talk go?

Marco:

Thanks for asking it went okay but brings comments on subsequent matters, Chinese Language.

With regard to transmission of knowledge there is not merely what the transmitter may or may not know but how "ready" those that are on the other end are i.e. those that receive the information. I have a small "class" where I try to convey "Chinese medicine" (absurd as it may sound), either way neither of the participants can understand when I emphasise about the importance of learning medical Chinese (which by the way is taking note of Jim Ramholz suggested methodology, cheers). However I try to tell them that the aim of the "teacher" facilitator (probably a more pertinent term for what and where we in Guatemala are currently at) is for the students to learn more then the "teacher" and hence a way to truly develop idiosyncratic particularise is to wale and re-wale through the medical heritage that is both now and what was then. This I think is better conveyed by Steven Clavey:

"... for whom the word 'classic' -jing- is the image of the lengthy warph threads on a loom, those lines which carry the essential experience of culture on and through weft after weft of succeeding generations. In the practical area of Chinese medicine, the importance of this consistency cannot be over-emphasized...Thus a practitioner needing a new perspective on a difficult case has a tremendous breath of resource material from which to draw: perhaps a modern journal, perhaps the essay of a physician first written fifteen hundred years ago" Page v-vi Fluid Physiology and pathology in Traditional Chinese medicine.

Also Unshuld wrote not sure of exactly reference but something like:

How often do you hear people say "Chinese medicine is 2000 years old"

I say what purpose does it serve if we can not access the 2000 years "lengthy warp threads on a loom" to always promote Chinese medicine as a valid system or a way to marketing our services because of its enduring history (which is still in the making and re-making).

Hence coming back to the point of how ready those are that receive the transmission of Chinese medicine is that once the acceptance that we do not posses Chinese medicine (Bensky and Voklker in signification and Bensky in an editorial for a Anglo-Dutch Oriental medicine journal really elegantly elaborates this them), but maybe are mediating a living system. Have the obligation to return the "favour" Chinese medicine does for us in terms of being able to greater and lesser extent treat patients and the personal fulfilment in "quenching" the thirst for knowledge that indeed may be a trait of a TCM practitioner.

Also there is difference between passive receiver and active receiver.

Thus for the above scenarios it once more becomes self evident that the question is not either or but how to learn medical Chinese which albeit may be to a greater and lesser degrees depending on numerous factors beyond the scope of this letter letter.

Marco Bergh